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Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
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Sep 22, 2003
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This thread is to discuss what names we use for countries, cultures, leaders etc in-game.

For countries, I'd suggest the following:

1. In general, we ask, "What would English-speaking historians call the country nowadays?"

Eg BYZ = Byzantium or Byzantine Empire. These terms were not used anywhere in 1419, and certainly not within the Empire, but they are today. I believe that 'Byzantine Empire' is more common for referring to the whole empire, so that might be a better name.

But SUD = Nubia. Although the modern-day state is called Sudan, this is not what historians call the state which existed prior to the Arab conquest.

2. We use the short form of a country's name where one exists.

Eg GEN = Genoa. We could write 'Republic of Genoa', but that's unnecessarily long. Note that this is different to the case of say 'Ottoman Empire', as there is no short form of this.

3. The plural of the name of a tribal group, family, caste, political group etc usually implies a disorganised collection of states, or a cobbled-together faction (usually in a civil war). Eg 'Royalists', or 'Khazaks'. Where this is not the case, we should try to use a country or region name.

Eg the state around the Lower Nile will be called Egypt. But if it disintegrates, the various factions might be called 'Mameluks', 'Fatimids' or whatever.

4. Generally, country names don't need the definite article, even if you'd use one in a sentence.

Eg KAL = Union of Kalmar, even though in a sentence you'd say "the Union of Kalmar was...'

5. We should avoid ambiguous country names which don't specify the country uniquely.

Eg 'Caliphate' is a bad name for a country if in fact two countries claim to be the Caliphate. But we can be more specific by saying 'Abbasid Caliphate'.
 
The AGC-EEP has wressled with this general issue on several occassions. Remember that the game itself is far from consistent, with English names used in many places, regional orthography used elsewhere, and some provinces with essentially made-up names in either the English style or else in made-up-flavour style.

Nonetheless, we can try to be more consistent, as Incompetant suggests. On that note, although we currently refer to them as Iroquois, I chose to move away from that name for other reasons. Many of the names given to native american peoples by the conquerors are actually insults, and we need to use their original names, not just out of basic respect, but also to avoid the use of insulting names. Hence Haudenosaunee in place of Iroquois, and Dichali (made up) in place of Anasazi ( "descendants of enemies" ).

For monarchs and leaders, I urge us to do the converse and use their 'real' names, not anglicized ones. The flavour is greatly preferable.

MattyG
 
Yes, MattyG's right on this. And it would be good to adopt Incompetent's naming scheme.

(I do want to avoid slowing things down, so if anyone wants to start an argument like the rather interminable ones in the AGCEEP project...let's not argue.) :)
 
The AGC-EEP really is a marvellous mod and considering that so many people care about it and all of them can voice their opinions in faceless, gutless threads, its magnificent the kind of consensus they HAVE acheived. Thank goodness fewer people care about Aberration. :)
 
Name the Caliphate = Abbasid Caliphate.Its accurate, and if Cordoba declares herself the Caliphate, we can differentiate between them.
 
Calipah said:
Name the Caliphate = Abbasid Caliphate.Its accurate, and if Cordoba declares herself the Caliphate, we can differentiate between them.

My thoughts exactly. It's certainly a lot better as names go than 'The Kaliphate'.

Here's a list of suggestions for new country names:

CAL = Abbasid Caliphate
JER = Jerusalem
ARA = Hejaz (not sure about the best spelling here)
KLE = Cleves
NIP = Japan
PFA = Rhenish Palatinate (Palatinate on its own is generic)
LUX = Luxembourg (AFAIK 'Luxembourgh' is not used in any language; the French spelling seems to be to most common)
STR = Strasbourg (the German spelling is not used in English)
KRE = Crete
KRN = Carinthia (again, Kärnten is German, not English)
SEV = Seville