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mike8472

Field Marshal
42 Badges
Feb 9, 2003
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Hi all.

I am proposing a new way for the Aussie group to operate for those that want to play. It has become clear of late the structure of our group and resolution of disputes has really fallen down to what it used to be. Perhaps it due to we have more players now and varied opinions on what or how things should happen.

I am going to attempt to put this new structure in place so that it is well beded down come Hoi3. First big task is to resolve disputes and although we have a number of rules for this it seems they are never followed, no point having rules if they are simply ignored, means they dont work.

Group Structure.

Group moderator.

The group moderator is selected at the start of the game not by a group vote but by a set roster that will rotate with each game to the next in line player. Much how the European Union works its presidency. Everyone has a turn so its fair for all, and we all see how other people handle the decisions. The group moderator will call for a group discussion which they will mediate. If the dispute involves the GM then they will select a person not involved in this dispute to mediate it. If no easy solution is found after talking about it. A group vote is called. The group vote must be of even numbers from each team. So if the Axis have 5 players and allies only 4 then it is 4 votes from each side. If a tie results then the GM will have the final say.

The GM decision is final. If a player disagrees with the final decisions after a discussion, group vote then a GM ruling they should have a look at them selves and perhaps find another group to play with.

GM Roster.

Will work in a simple list of named players. Each player is number from 1 through to the amount for the game. 1. Is the GM for this game. In the next game the GM will rotate to number 2, and so on. So each game is a new GM. Only the players who played in the last game can be considered for GM of the next game, no brand new players can be a GM. Nice and simple.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Nation Selection and game Balance.

For every Human played nation there must be a Human player on the opposite team. If we have 7 or 9 players then that player picks a minor nation of there choice and it put to a group vote to decide if that is fair or not. Nation choices are selected at the start of game and not changed unless ofcourse your natty spain or china as you cant play your nation till there formed. Human France must stay France after vinchy or play another nation in the CW.

Eg. Human Germany you need Human USSR.
Human Japan you need a Human USA
Human Italy you need Human UK
Human France you need a Human Spain/Hungary/Romania
Human Brazil you need a Human Natty China

You get the idea.

Nation choice will be the same Via a simple list. If your one nation for this game next game you will move to the opposite team and play a nation on that side. If a player does not want that nation they can pass on it or swap with another play if both players agree.

Axis. Allies

1. Germany --Mike-- 1. Allied Minor --Vacant--
2. Japan --Sgt Bakkus-- 2. UK --Geo?--
3. Italy --Angry-- 3. USA --SE?--
4. Axis minor --Vacant-- 4. USSR --Tonic--

This list works as follows. If you play Germany one game the next game you will play an allied Minor which is on your same line. After 2 games of playing Germany then an allied minor you then move to line two under Axis again and play Japan, then the UK. You can swap if two players agree to it, however if its your turn your expected to play that nation so the group can play. If you refuse a group vote and discussion will be held to resolve the issue.



RULES:

Any area not covered in these rules can be raised and dicussed as a group under the disputes resolution process with the GM. These rules by no means cover all aspects of the game and not all players will honestly remember all rules or how there implied, or even the implied mechanics of how our games run. If a group vote or GM modies or allows a rule for the game it can be implemented part way through a game. All edits if required need apporval of the group or GM to do.

Semi Historical game. All rule discussion must take place prior to a new game commencing and must be approved by all players in the group.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines

1. Human France must select vinchy event when it fires.

2. No war until Danzig unless via an event. ie. Japan and China.

3. No allying of minors prior to Danzig.

4. Base USA & USSR war entry is 1st January 1942.

5. Any unhistorical DOW's or Alliances will result in USA and USSR increasing or decreasing there base war entry by 6 months.

6. If Allies choose France Human player. Italy may ally post ethiopian war, otherwise they cannot join until after Vichy event.

If Axis choose Nat Spain as Human player they cannot enter until after vichy, Brazil Human player may ally post vichy otherwise USA war entry is decreased as per rule 5. No German, Axis Allies or Italian air, Ground or ships may be in each other countries until they are at Major war.

b)Once in the German alliance Italy may not leave prior to Major war.

7. Base Japanese War entry Date January 1st 1941, however should USA refuse to trade min 20 of each resource for 20 Supplies the Japanese may attack earlier unless agreement reached on another trade.

8. Neither Russia nor Japan may DOW each other until 1st January 1943. should Japan select to attack russia at khalkin Ghol the war must be finished in a time frame befitting a border skirmish. (3 months).

9. Russia must accept the Historical Molotov - Ribbontrop pact if offered and NAP must be honoured. If historical M/R pact is offered then Germany MAY NOT DOW Russia before 1st of January 1941. Extended NAP's are to be negotiated between the German and USSR player at their discretion.

10. Trading of military units:
a) USA is permitted to supply UK with escort fleets if Gibralter Falls.
b) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.
c) Military sales between nations are prohibited until both nations are at war.
d) Starting units may be sold except for Capital Naval Units (USA, Japan).

11. No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

12. No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

13. Supply Exploits:
a) No Expeditioning of forces to Minors to save Supplys.
b) A capital may not be diliberately surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.
c) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied immediately. The agressor will play fair. Any major dramas should be brought to everyones attention

14. Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:
a) Any resource may be traded with any other country.
b) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.
c) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.
d) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.
e) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. And in some instances can be edited.

15. Military access:
a) No one is permitted to allow military access to foreign troops unless they are at war with a common enemy.
b) The USA does receive military access to the UK through events but this may not be used until the USA is at war with Germany.
c) If you manage to gain Military access to a neutral minor your forces may pass though but may not launch attacks from such a country.

16. Surrounded armies may not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower.

17. Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

18. Province improvements:
a) USA may not build coastal forts until China Falls.
b) No other country may build forts past level 5; exceptions are Gibraltar and Malta.
c) All airbases and Naval bases must be built in the province and not placed from build queue.

19. No country may change its starting land doctrine.

20. All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group.

21. No SR from province that is adjacent enemy units not in retreat.

22. Maximum city stacking limited of 36. If forced by retreat and totally surrounded opponent may vacant a province so the stacking limit can be corrected.

Please raise any issues or ideas you might have on how to improve this. Im looking at a long term strucutre here to keep for many years into Hoi3, not only for hoi2.

Please give me your prefernces of nations. Myself since I was robbed of playing Germany, would like another shot at it, but happen to play anything.
 
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due to the fact a lot of the old aussie players refuce to play annymore 36 senario's ill count my selve in. im not interested in Abyss games because there boring. nothing to prepare and nothing to plan just stupid: "who the biggest army has wins'' count me in as Japan cause i was on a role last game and i realy hope to remake it. there will be conditions: i dont want fckin quitters and whiners in this game. important disissions will be voted for and whatever the outcome will be LIVE WITH IT! AND PLAY ON!!!. and dont even try to come back to taken disissions a few years later!. evryone who Joins knows the ruels and lives by them, NO EXPLOITING in what sort of form you can think of!! annyone who breaks these ruels i will rip there head off Im realy tierd of games ending this way!! how often did it happen ya past 1945 in a game? :mad:
 
happy to look through them again. obvious errors include trading of escorts (not tech posssible me thinks)

Seriously suggest we play the 38 scenario as a standard from now on as i think it will be far better from a conclusion point of view and is more balanced vis a vis nations.

Also provides a break from certain paradigms which have not served us well. Flexible on nation though ussr appeals as i never played it.

consistant game quitters should not ask to play imo.
 
38 is a real bitch when youre on axis, there is no way you make a chance of winning the war, UK is way to overpowerd Japan is way to weak, italy still usess pitchforks and muskets, and USA can still whore 3 years ic before entering the war so.. i prefer 36
 
Hi all.

I am proposing a new way for the Aussie group to operate for those that want to play. It has become clear of late the structure of our group and resolution of disputes has really fallen down to what it used to be. Perhaps it due to we have more players now and varied opinions on what or how things should happen.

I am going to attempt to put this new structure in place so that it is well beded down come Hoi3. First big task is to resolve disputes and although we have a number of rules for this it seems they are never followed, no point having rules if they are simply ignored, means they dont work.

Group Structure.

Group moderator.

The group moderator is selected at the start of the game not by a group vote but by a set roster that will rotate with each game to the next in line player. Much how the European Union works its presidency. Everyone has a turn so its fair for all, and we all see how other people handle the decisions. The group moderator will call for a group discussion which they will mediate. If the dispute involves the GM then they will select a person not involved in this dispute to mediate it. If no easy solution is found after talking about it. A group vote is called. The group vote must be of even numbers from each team. So if the Axis have 5 players and allies only 4 then it is 4 votes from each side. If a tie results then the GM will have the final say.

The GM decision is final. If a player disagrees with the final decisions after a discussion, group vote then a GM ruling they should have a look at them selves and perhaps find another group to play with.

GM Roster.

Will work in a simple list of named players. Each player is number from 1 through to the amount for the game. 1. Is the GM for this game. In the next game the GM will rotate to number 2, and so on. So each game is a new GM. Only the players who played in the last game can be considered for GM of the next game, no brand new players can be a GM. Nice and simple.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Nation Selection and game Balance.

For every Human played nation there must be a Human player on the opposite team. If we have 7 or 9 players then that player picks a minor nation of there choice and it put to a group vote to decide if that is fair or not. Nation choices are selected at the start of game and not changed unless ofcourse your natty spain or china as you cant play your nation till there formed. Human France must stay France after vinchy or play another nation in the CW.

Eg. Human Germany you need Human USSR.
Human Japan you need a Human USA
Human Italy you need Human UK
Human France you need a Human Spain/Hungary/Romania
Human Brazil you need a Human Natty China

You get the idea.

Nation choice will be the same Via a simple list. If your one nation for this game next game you will move to the opposite team and play a nation on that side. If a player does not want that nation they can pass on it or swap with another play if both players agree.

Axis. Allies

1. Germany 1. Allied Minor
2. Japan 2. UK
3. Italy 3. USA
4. Axis minor 4. USSR

This list works as follows. If you play Germany one game the next game you will play an allied Minor which is on your same line. After 2 games of playing Germany then an allied minor you then move to line two under Axis again and play Japan, then the UK. You can swap if two players agree to it, however if its your turn your expected to play that nation so the group can play. If you refuse a group vote and discussion will be held to resolve the issue.



RULES:

Any area not covered in these rules can be raised and dicussed as a group under the disputes resolution process with the GM. These rules by no means cover all aspects of the game and not all players will honestly remember all rules or how there implied, or even the implied mechanics of how our games run. If a group vote or GM modies or allows a rule for the game it can be implemented part way through a game. All edits if required need apporval of the group or GM to do.

Semi Historical game. All rule discussion must take place prior to a new game commencing and must be approved by all players in the group.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines

1. Human France must select vinchy event when it fires.

2. No war until Danzig unless via an event. ie. Japan and China.

3. No allying of minors prior to Danzig.

4. Base USA & USSR war entry is 1st January 1942.

5. Any unhistorical DOW's or Alliances will result in USA and USSR increasing or decreasing there base war entry by 6 months.

6. Italy may ally Germany after Eithopia is annexed with the following restrictions:
a)No German, Axis Allies or Italian air, Ground or ships may be in each other countries until they are at Major war.

b)Once in the German alliance Italy may not leave prior to Major war.

7. Base Japanese War entry Date January 1st 1941, however should USA refuse to trade min 20 of each resource for 20 Supplies the Japanese may attack earlier unless agreement reached on another trade.

8. Neither Russia nor Japan may DOW each other until 1st January 1943. should Japan select to attack russia at khalkin Ghol the war must be finished in a time frame befitting a border skirmish. (3 months).

9. Russia must accept the Historical Molotov - Ribbontrop pact if offered and NAP must be honoured. If historical M/R pact is offered then Germany MAY NOT DOW Russia before 1st of January 1941. Extended NAP's are to be negotiated between the German and USSR player at their discretion.

10. Trading of military units:
a) USA is permitted to supply UK with escort fleets if Gibralter Falls.
b) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.
c) Military sales between nations are prohibited until both nations are at war.
d) Starting units may be sold except for Capital Naval Units (USA, Japan).

11. No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

12. No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

13. Supply Exploits:
a) No Expeditioning of forces to Minors to save Supplys.
b) A capital may not be diliberately surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.
c) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied immediately. The agressor will play fair. Any major dramas should be brought to everyones attention

14. Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:
a) Any resource may be traded with any other country.
b) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.
c) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.
d) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.
e) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. And in some instances can be edited.

15. Military access:
a) No one is permitted to allow military access to foreign troops unless they are at war with a common enemy.
b) The USA does receive military access to the UK through events but this may not be used until the USA is at war with Germany.
c) If you manage to gain Military access to a neutral minor your forces may pass though but may not launch attacks from such a country.

16. Surrounded armies may not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower.

17. Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

18. Province improvements:
a) USA may not build coastal forts until China Falls.
b) No other country may build forts past level 5; exceptions are Gibraltar and Malta.
c) All airbases and Naval bases must be built in the province and not placed from build queue.

19. No country may change its starting land doctrine.

20. All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group.

21. No SR from province that is adjacent enemy units not in retreat.

22. Maximum city stacking limited of 36. If forced by retreat and totally surrounded opponent may vacant a province so the stacking limit can be corrected.

Please raise any issues or ideas you might have on how to improve this. Im looking at a long term strucutre here to keep for many years into Hoi3, not only for hoi2.

Please give me your prefernces of nations. Myself since I was robbed of playing Germany, would like another shot at it, but happen to play anything.

I am not against playing 36 games, but as the saying goes. ''What's good for the goose is good for the gander''. When there is a human Germany, Italy, Japan accompanied by a human controlled or set up, Manchuria, Naty Spain, Naty China, Romania and Hungary (Total of 8 countries). Then it should be fair that the allies get to at the very least set their minors build ques, which never happened and was one of the major reasons why the previous game broke down. But that is now history so to your current suggestions.

If Italy is allowed to join the axis after ethiopia then there needs to be a human France, that is the only counter to Italy joining the axis so early. Everyone that has any HOI experience knows that ai France builds sweet F.A. in regards to land forces by Danzig, regardless of wether or not ai Frances units have been set to not upgrade/reinforce. Otherwise the UK has no option but to deploy to the med/mid east to stop Italian incursions leaving just AI France to defend against Human Germany and Italy. Also I would like to add that all majors should be played by experienced players the only exception is France, good fun nation for our Kiwi nub nubs to start with and get smashed. If the axis and allies aggree before hand that Italy will not be joining the axis until after say Vichy then there of course will be no need for a Human France. If there is a human naty spain/naty China then there needs to be a human brazil to counter them. Like wise for the European axis minors, for everyone that is Human (Hungary, Romania)there needs to be a Human allied minor (Australia, Canada).

Also keep in mind that your proposed nation roster is similar to something that I tried to incorporate into Aussie games a few games back (6-12 months ago). It fell flat because players (you included Mikey), drew countries they weren't happy with. Then the likes of Major ect ect threw the game in because they didn't want to play that country blah blah blah. There is a different bunch of people now, bar the few old Aussie group vets, so as long as they are open minded and willing to give different nations and ideoligies ago, then this system should be able to work.

If you'se are WILLING TO WORK AROUND my work roster then I am willing to give it one last shot.

Preferences are as follows.

Majors

Germany
Japan
USA
Italy
UK
USSR

Minors

France
Romania
Naty China
Naty Spain
Canada
Hungary
Brazil
Australia

SE.
 
Dealing with the future here now SE, not going to rehash what happened in the other game. I've moved on. It certainly wont stop me from play Hoi though.

Your thoughs on Italy being in the Axis early need to be looked at with no Human france. But this gets us back to where we end up having all the CW forces in France or deployed in position ready against Italy in 1940. That is why we removed all these rules so the UK could deploy what ever it wanted where ever it needed. But to counter that as Italy had no chance against a CW & UK fully deployed into the med, was Italian entry early.

Maybe another way to look at this problem is if Italy is in Axis early, as im sure we dont want to go back to restricting the UK from moving all its forces from CW nations. What about no Natty spain, if there is no france. If there is an Axis minor then they need to go say Romania, Hungary. That would take alot of preasure of the UK.

Or we can go back to the old rules, where the UK dosnt move the CW forces (Australian, NZ, South Africa and so on) from there home countries until March 1940. Italian War entry is restricted until March 1940. That way UK can focus on Germany, no worry about the med until 6 months later.

There the only real options I can realisticly see. Just depends if people want freedom to do what they like as UK & Italy or restrict it a bit.

Lets see what others have to say about it.
 
38 is a real bitch when youre on axis, there is no way you make a chance of winning the war, UK is way to overpowerd Japan is way to weak, italy still usess pitchforks and muskets, and USA can still whore 3 years ic before entering the war so.. i prefer 36

I do agree with this. 38 is ok, but UK is way strong. I enjoy building my nation from scratch so I can pick and chose what I like to do. I prefer to stick with 36GC
 
happy to look through them again. obvious errors include trading of escorts (not tech posssible me thinks)

Do you mean the escourts rule for Gibralter falling?


Seriously suggest we play the 38 scenario as a standard from now on as i think it will be far better from a conclusion point of view and is more balanced vis a vis nations.

Also provides a break from certain paradigms which have not served us well. Flexible on nation though ussr appeals as i never played it.
Im not as keen on this as 38 brings up a whole host of issues itself with game balance and nations played. Lets stick to 36 as it might be one of the last games we play for hoi2. Happy to put it to group vote though and play what is decided.

consistant game quitters should not ask to play imo.
.Well game is open to everyone, but all must commit to playing by the rules and restictions imposed by the group.

The carrot and stick approach is, if we have a good group of players, Hoi3 will soon be out and im sure we would all like a good group of players so we can get stuck into that. Early quiters from now on would not be welcome back for hoi3. That sort of behaviour has to stop. Im guilty of it myself some times, we all get heated but normaly after a nights sleep its alot clearer and you get over it. Unfortately for the last game that didnt happen, hence the changes needed.

I hope all our Aussie group players will play, well have our issues with each other from time to time. Im man enough to say, I farked up, I make mistakes, I will learn from it. Now time to move on.

I know Major Ball, Munster will return once hoi 3 is out, they have told me that. So would be nice for a big group of players to stay together and work together.
 
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Dealing with the future here now SE, not going to rehash what happened in the other game. I've moved on. It certainly wont stop me from play Hoi though.

Your thoughs on Italy being in the Axis early need to be looked at with no Human france. But this gets us back to where we end up having all the CW forces in France or deployed in position ready against Italy in 1940. That is why we removed all these rules so the UK could deploy what ever it wanted where ever it needed. But to counter that as Italy had no chance against a CW & UK fully deployed into the med, was Italian entry early.

Maybe another way to look at this problem is if Italy is in Axis early, as im sure we dont want to go back to restricting the UK from moving all its forces from CW nations. What about no Natty spain, if there is no france. If there is an Axis minor then they need to go say Romania, Hungary. That would take alot of preasure of the UK.

Or we can go back to the old rules, where the UK dosnt move the CW forces (Australian, NZ, South Africa and so on) from there home countries until March 1940. Italian War entry is restricted until March 1940. That way UK can focus on Germany, no worry about the med until 6 months later.

There the only real options I can realisticly see. Just depends if people want freedom to do what they like as UK & Italy or restrict it a bit.

Lets see what others have to say about it.

Well how about this for a comprimise. Italy allies early (makes a big difference to Italy getting all those German BP's prior to war), Human France. But all CW minors must remain in their home countries until Vichy event fires, unless a nation is allied to the enemy alliance in their immediate sphere of influence. ie: Australia. Germany allies Siam, Australian forces can then move to deal with this new threat as it can be veiwed as a direct threat to Australia's security. SE.
 
hahhahahahahahahahhahaha i can't believe this is what it's come to. what a joke. you noobs need 2 grow up, o wait u already have considering ur all like 30+.

scratch what i said about hoi3, ill go back to the americans and euros, at least they can finish a game.

p.s stalin give me a call if daddys not givin it 2 ya, ive got a nice fat cock i know you will love you gay bar loiterer

p.p.s hows gunny these days? does he still struggle to string together a sentence? watching him try to type something comprehensible was always hilarious, he writes like old people fuck.
 
hahhahahahahahahahhahaha i can't believe this is what it's come to. what a joke. you noobs need 2 grow up, o wait u already have considering ur all like 30+.

scratch what i said about hoi3, ill go back to the americans and euros, at least they can finish a game.

p.s stalin give me a call if daddys not givin it 2 ya, ive got a nice fat cock i know you will love you gay bar loiterer

p.p.s hows gunny these days? does he still struggle to string together a sentence? watching him try to type something comprehensible was always hilarious, he writes like old people fuck.

Careful Schindler, you might get your second account perm banned also. Now don't you have the rest of the girl guides to play with... SE.
 
Put me down for Italy. I always thought Mussolini was rather unfortunate to be painted such a villain. That and time to let my mean streak out.

We do really need someone to play UK though or else this is going to be very lop sided.:D

Also I have Weds Thurs off. I'm good anytime Thurs but im out at a cafe until later on the Weds, so possibly 11pm Sudnee would be ok(weds).


Completely free for a thurs start, or friday would need to be around 9:15 Sydney time.
 
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happy with 36.

i suggest side rules as follows

axis and allies have equal number of players

each side takes it in turn to pick a nation from the agreed pool for their side.

when everyone has a nation we play

pools

allied

CW
USSR
USA
France
Brazil

axis

Germs
japan
Italy
Nat China
Nat Spain

let each alliance decide what they want. Better for all concerned.


Rules


If Allies choose France. Italy may ally post ethiopia, otherwise post Vichy.

If Axis choose Nat Spain Brazil may ally post vichy otherwise USA entry.

I think this is a good balance.
 
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