New capital for province 1240 - Hawaii

[Philadelphus]

Currently the province of Hawaii (which encompasses the entire island chain) has its capital listed as "Hawaii," which is properly the name of the largest island in the chain. I'd like to suggest changing this to one of the cities that served as the capital of the kingdom of Hawaii during this time period.

The capital of the kingdom of Hawaii changed pretty frequently early on (from Wikipedia):

• Waikīkī (1795–1796)
• Hilo (1796–1803)
• Honolulu (1803–1812)
• Kailua-Kona (1812–1820)
• Lāhainā (1820–1845)
• Honolulu (1845–1893)

I would suggest the capital being changed to Honolulu, at it was the capital for the longest time during the EU IV period (9 years, 1803–1812). While I'd love to have it be one of the other, lesser-known cities that was the capital during that period, the city that was the capital the longest seems to make the most sense. Plus the fact that Honolulu ended up being the permanent capital of the kingdom, and remains the capital of the state of Hawaii to this day.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Philadelphus]

Excellent—thanks Trin Tragula!

 

[Chief of Staff]

+1 I would also love to see Hawaii split into several island provinces, maybe three of the largest islands in its chain, but I can see issues with this: Clicking difficulty, room for extra provinces, etc.

Perhaps if EU5 were to utilize a much larger map size, that might be more feasible.

 

[Philadelphus]

Kauaʻi, Oʻahu, Maui, and Hawaiʻi are traditionally considered the four main islands in the Hawaiian archipelago, so if Hawaii were to split it'd make sense to split it into four provinces: "Kauai", which would include the islands of Kauaʻi and Niʻihau, "Oahu", which would be just Oʻahu, "Maui", which would include the islands of Maui, Molokaʻi, Lānaʻi, and Kahoʻlawe (which isn't on the map currently), and "Hawaii", containing just the island of Hawaiʻi.

On the other hand, the provinces would be really small and hard to click, so I don't think it'd make sense to split it without also increasing the physical size of the region slightly. It would definitely be neat to see from a simulation point of view, and to emphasize how the Hawaiian islands are the largest land masses for thousands of miles around and useful as a harbor in the middle of the Pacific, but I'm honestly not sure how much it would really add to the game.

 

[cub298]

Kauaʻi, Oʻahu, Maui, and Hawaiʻi are traditionally considered the four main islands in the Hawaiian archipelago, so if Hawaii were to split it'd make sense to split it into four provinces: "Kauai", which would include the islands of Kauaʻi and Niʻihau, "Oahu", which would be just Oʻahu, "Maui", which would include the islands of Maui, Molokaʻi, Lānaʻi, and Kahoʻlawe (which isn't on the map currently), and "Hawaii", containing just the island of Hawaiʻi.

On the other hand, the provinces would be really small and hard to click, so I don't think it'd make sense to split it without also increasing the physical size of the region slightly. It would definitely be neat to see from a simulation point of view, and to emphasize how the Hawaiian islands are the largest land masses for thousands of miles around and useful as a harbor in the middle of the Pacific, but I'm honestly not sure how much it would really add to the game.

It would be real nice for the Hawaiian islands to be split into four and also be enlarged on the map. I say it could be good to do that to that place, at least, because it is one of the biggest check mark, from going from Asia to North America, or other way around. Scale has been ignored before for Islands in EU4 before, but this would probably be the most it could ever be ignored (and surprisingly I agree to this). Be great to give more to Hawaii!

 

[Shadowstrike]

For that matter, it might be neat to represent the islands as a set of different kingdoms, which can be unified (akin to Madagascar).

 

[Chief of Staff]

I also thought about separate kingdoms for Hawaii. But honestly, is there really anything much to do as an united kingdom on a relatively isolated region of a mere four large islands? Once you unite the Hawaii, what do you do, sit and wait for Europeans or for that matter anyone capable of seafaring?

 

[Shadowstrike]

Well, you can sail to other Polynesian islands and try to build a Pacific Empire...

 

[Chief of Staff]

Well, you can sail to other Polynesian islands and try to build a Pacific Empire...

I don't think Paradox will likely give them an ability to build ships, just like native Americans couldn't.

But maybe a solution to this and to native Americans is to create a new class of naval units: boats, which cannot traverse beyond the coastal waters.

But for Polynesians, they could have a NT that adds modifier enabling their boats to traverse any sea provinces within Pacific regions with certain limitations like maybe excluding coastal waters of California or something.

The idea here is that boats would be severely at disadvantage against all other classes of naval units (heavy ships, light ships, transports, and even galleys) but would be excellent for discovering islands far away, before you can colonize them. In other words, a vessel designed primarily for scouting. Polynesian NI could give one colonist or something.

I don't know how Polynesians would be able to get Quest of the New World necessary for explorers. I can't remember how ideas system worked but I remember that certain idea groups are enabled only under certain conditions (e.g. monarchies does not get Plutocracy) and I don't know if Exploration are disabled for native Americans. If Polynesians cannot get Exploration idea as a primitive nation, then maybe each boats, when staffed with "admirals", would function like explorers?

Once the Polynesians upgraded from primitive status to advanced form of government like how native Americans does, it could convert boats to light ships or transports.

Just speculating here and I may be wrong on some information about native Americans in EU4 since I never played them.

 

[Philadelphus]

It would actually be historical for Hawaiians not to be able to make ships during the EU IV time frame. Although the Polynesians were making amazing long-distance voyages centuries earlier, and kept up contact between Hawaii and the rest of Polynesia for a few centuries more, by the time period of the game voyages to and from Hawaii had ceased (for whatever reasons, no one knows for sure; voyages between the Hawaiian islands, which are often close enough to be visible, continued, and could be represented by straits).

While I would love to see some Hawaiian tags organically combine into one archipelago-spanning kingdom from a simulationist point of view, I don't think 4 OPM tags that would be basically completely isolated from the outside world until Europeans show up would be much fun to actually play, so I'm fine with Paradox leaving this sort of thing to mods.

Now, the unified Kingdom of Hawaii (which I wouldn't mind seeing added, maybe I should get back to work on my mod for it ) did start claiming various Pacific islands, but this was after the islands' discovery by Cook and their adoption of European technology (including ships), and could be represented by them having a weighting towards taking Expansion ideas (they never really colonized as the game understands it, but I think it's close enough for game play purposes).

I don't know how Polynesians would be able to get Quest of the New World necessary for explorers. I can't remember how ideas system worked but I remember that certain idea groups are enabled only under certain conditions (e.g. monarchies does not get Plutocracy) and I don't know if Exploration are disabled for native Americans.

The only idea groups explicitly locked for primitives are Maritime and Naval, actually.
Primitive nations can unlock technology normally, they just begin with a 50% penalty for not having feudalism and it only gets worse from there. They also all start at level 1 in each category, and need to unlock up to level 5 in admin to get ideas, so while it's possible, it would take a very long time.