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unmerged(38537)

Sergeant
Jan 23, 2005
55
0
Hey All.

I have an idea...

Firstly, I'd like to tell something about history.
In 1392, prince of Opole (Oppeln), Ladislaus, wanted to partition the Polish Kingdom. Mazovia and (partially) Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) and Kujawia had to be ceded to the Teutonic Order, the rest would have got Zsigmond of Luxembourg. Historically, these plans failed, because Wladyslaw Jagiello discovered them and his troops plundered principality of Opole, forcing Ladislaus to cancel any expansion.

But "Aberration" represents alternative history, so let's think, what would have happened if these plans had been ended with a success of Ladislaus and his allies...

In my opinion, Wielkopolska would belong to the Ladislaus' successors (he died in 1402) - I think it could be Silesia, Kujawia (province Poznan) and Mazovia to the Teutonic Order, Krakow and Lwow (province Galizien?) to Hungary, and Podlasia (as a country ruling also Volyn) would represent remnants of Poland.

Maybe the alliance of Hungary, Teutonic Order and Opole (Silesia) would fight the Hussites?

What do You think about this?

Greetings,
M.A.

P.S. I will attach the map soon.

P.S. 2 Special thanks to Mr Moderator and ex-Head of the Project, TheArchduke, who allowed me to post this message.
 
Last edited:
M.A. said:
Hey All.

I have an idea...

Firstly, I'd like to tell something about history.
In 1392, prince of Oppeln, Ladislaus, wanted to partition the Polish Kingdom. Mazovia and (partially) Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) and Kujawia had to be ceded to the Teutonic Order, the rest would have got Zsigmond of Luxembourg. Historically, these plans failed, because Wladyslaw Jagiello discovered them and his troops plundered principality of Oppeln, forcing Ladislaus to cancel any expansion.

But "Aberration" represents alternative history, so let's think, what would have happened if these plans had been ended with a success of Ladislaus and his allies...

In my opinion, Wielkopolska would belong to the Ladislaus' successors (he died in 1402) - I think it could be Silesia, Kujawia (province Poznan) and Mazovia to the Teutonic Order, Krakow and Lwow (province Galizien?) to Hungary, and Podlasia (as a country ruling also Volyn) would represent remnants of Poland.

Maybe the alliance of Hungary, Teutonic Order and Oppeln (Silesia) would fight the Hussites?

What do You think about this?

Greetings,
M.A.

P.S. I will attach the map soon.

P.S. 2 Special thanks to Mr Moderator and ex-Head of the Project, TheArchduke, who allowed me to post this message.

Sounds good, but we're going to have to fiddle with other things for balance: as it is, Hungary is the Great Green Blob, expanding in all directions with only the religious conversion event to slow its rate of conquest slightly, and the complete destruction of Bohemia by 1450 (even if it returns to Catholicism) is already a virtual certainty because everyone is out to get them. Perhaps Bohemia should receive some kind of support from Swabia and the Hansa, as both are pragmatic rather than fanatical, and they'd want to stop the anti-Hussite powers getting too strong? That might make a real fight of things.
 
I see that some people are interested in my idea...

Now I'll show the map.

mapa.jpg


Black is the Teutonic Order, brown is Hungary, Oppeln (Silesia) is orange and Podlasia - red. The small squares are the capital cities.

P.S.
Incompetent said:
Perhaps Bohemia should receive some kind of support from Swabia and the Hansa

Very good idea. It will prevent from early destruction of Hussite Bohemia.
 
M.A. said:
P.S.

Very good idea. It will prevent from early destruction of Hussite Bohemia.

For the Hansa, I was thinking of something along the lines of:

event = {
id = XXX1
random = no
country = HSA
trigger = {
event = XXX2 # BAY crusades against the Hussites
war = { country = BAY country = BOH }
NOT = { relation = { country = BAY value = 0 } }
}
date = { year = 1420 }
offset = 300
deathdate = { year = 1820 }
name = "Hussites look to the Hanseatic League for support"
desc = "Realising their precarious position, the Hussites sent emissaries out all over the HRE and beyond, offering their loyalty to anyone who would come to their aid. In most courts, they were thrown out immediately as heretics, but in some of the more open-minded states, pragmatic concerns were the order of the day. The merchants of the Hanseatic League had to weigh up the benefits of gaining a grateful new ally and trading partner, and the opportunity to curb the power of the Emperor, versus the cost and risk associated with joining the escalating conflict."
style = 1

action_a = {
name = "Intervene financially"
command = { type = relation which = BAY value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = POL value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = BOH value = 100 }
command = { type = cash value = -300 }
command = { trigger which = XXX3 } #BOH gets money
command = { type = sleepevent which = XXX4 } #R. of Prague joins the League
}
action_b = {
name = "Intervene militarily"
command = { type = relation which = BAY value = -200 }
command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -150 }
command = { type = relation which = POL value = -150 }
command = { type = relation which = BOH value = 200 }
command = { type = war which = BAY }
command = { type = alliance which = BOH }
command = { type = cash value = -100 }
command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 5000 }
command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 5000 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = XXX6 } #R. of Prague, current version
}
action_c = {
name = "Don't get involved - after all, they are heretics"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = XXX4 } #R. of Prague joins the League
command = { type = sleepevent which = XXX5 } #Hussites flee north
}
}

event = {
id = XXX4
trigger = {
NOT = { countrysize = 2 }
owned = { province = 328 data = BOH }
control = { province = 328 data = BOH }
atwar = no
}
random = no
country = BOH
name = "The Fate of Prague"
desc = "The former kingdom of Bohemia has been minimized to the city of Prague itself, with little prospect of recovery. Although their assistance ultimately did not win us the war, the valiance of the Hansa has not been forgotten, and many of Prague's wealthy citizens feel that we should seek membership of the League as a free city, rather than face almost certain conquest at the hands of our foes."
date = { year = 1420 }
offset = 3600
deathdate = { year = 1820 }
action_a = {
name = "Become the republic of Prague, and apply for membership of the Hanseatic League"
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = 3 } # Bohemia
command = { type = trigger which = XXX7 } #HSA inherits, gaining core on Prague + Czech culture
}

action_b = {
name = "Become the republic of Prague, but stay independent"
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = 3 } # Bohemia
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 2 }
command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 4 }
command = { type = removecore which = 314 } # Silesia
command = { type = removecore which = 315 } # Moravia
command = { type = removecore which = 327 } # Ostmarch
command = { type = removecore which = 329 } # Erz
command = { type = removecore which = 351 } # Austria
}
action_c = {
name = "Remain a kingdom"
command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -1 }
}
}

event = {
id = XXX5
trigger = {
event = XXX1
NOT = { event = XXX7 }
NOT = { exists = BOH }
NOT = { owned = { province = 328 data = HSA} } #unlikely w/o inheritance, but you never know what atrocities the AI will commit
}
random = no
country = HSA
name = "The Hussites flee north"
desc = "After the destruction of Bohemia, a large number of Hussites, many of whom were skilled craftsmen or veterans of the religious wars, sought refuge in the Hansa-cities."
date = { year = 1420 }
offset = 3600
deathdate = { year = 1820 }
action_a = {
name = "I'm sure we could come to some profitable arrangement"
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = population which = -3 value = 4000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = population which = -3 value = 4000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = population which = -3 value = 2000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = -1 value = 1 }
command = { type = population which = -3 value = 2000 }
command = { type = land value = 2000 }
}
}
 
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In my opinion, these events are very good. The description of the "Support of the Hansa" will be added soon, i think, won't it?


I suggest this solution:

1. Supporters of the Hussite movement:
-Hansa,
-Swabia,
-Ukraine (they are enemies of the Teutonic Order, so they could make use of this situation),
-Podlasia? (what do You think about it?)

2. Enemies of the Hussites:
-Bavaria,
-Hungary
 
M.A. said:
In my opinion, these events are very good. The description of the "Support of the Hansa" will be added soon, i think, won't it?


I suggest this solution:

1. Supporters of the Hussite movement:
-Hansa,
-Swabia,
-Ukraine (they are enemies of the Teutonic Order, so they could make use of this situation),
-Podlasia? (what do You think about it?)

2. Enemies of the Hussites:
-Bavaria,
-Hungary

Sounds about right, though I would have put Byzantium rather than Ukraine in support, as Hungary is usually the biggest beneficiary of the Hussite wars and soon starts making life unpleasant for the Romans. However, I wouldn't want countries getting involved militarily if they are too weak - it might backfire and make Bavaria/Hungary even stronger. Perhaps have a countrysize condition on their involvement. Subject to that, Swabia at least should definitely have the chance to invade Bavaria and gain a couple of cores, as they seem to be locked in a fight to the death with Bavaria anyway.

The events I posted were a first draft - I don't know exactly who's in charge of what goes into Abe, but I can tidy them up if they're going to be of use. The first Hansa support event description could read something like this:

"When the Hussites realised just how precarious their position was, they sent emissaries out all over the Holy Roman Empire and beyond, pleading for assistance. They were angrily thrown out of most courts as heretics, but in some of the more tolerant states, pragmatic concerns were the order of the day. The merchants of the Hanseatic League had to weigh up the benefits of gaining a grateful new ally and trading partner, and the opportunity to curb the power of the Emperor, versus the cost and risk associated with joining the escalating conflict."
 
Stopping The Hussites from early destruction is good, but if they aren't stopped early, they usually survive through the whole game.

The idea is good, but I'm not sure if helping the hussites it's that good.
 
Calanctus said:
Uhh... The point of Aberration is that the same two things don't happen in every game. Having the Hussites survive every once in a while is good.

Strangely enough, Bohemia is surviving in my current game (to 1460-odd - Bohemia is unscathed). Bizarrely, AI Hungary allied with them and used them as a convenient source of defensive wars...

I just had a thought - although their religious beliefs have some similarity to Reformation ideas, what would be the gameplay effect of making the Hussites 'Orthodox'? That way we could make the religion 'stick' and let them have some right-religion provinces, as well as giving the 'Heretics in Slovakia' event a bit more bite by converting a province or two. The only downside is they'd get rather friendly with the Orthodox world, but then seeing as most Orthodox countries in Abe would do anything to weaken Hungary and/or the TO, that's probably not such a bad thing.
 
Incompetent said:
I just had a thought - although their religious beliefs have some similarity to Reformation ideas, what would be the gameplay effect of making the Hussites 'Orthodox'? That way we could make the religion 'stick' and let them have some right-religion provinces, as well as giving the 'Heretics in Slovakia' event a bit more bite by converting a province or two.

In my opinion, the Protestant faith matches the Hussites. I suggest to make such an event:
event = {
id = ???
random = no
name = "The Hussite movement"
desc = "(some description)"
date = { year = 1419 }
offset = 0
action_a ={
name = "OK"
command = { type = flag which = 1 } # Reformation - I think the Hussitism was the pre-Reformation
}
}

"What about the proper Reformation?" - someone can ask.
In my opinion, let's make something like the Alun's Reformation Mod.
Firstly, the Hussite movement - activation of the Protestant faith; periodical (15th century) province-triggered events make Bohemia and some more lands protestant (can also convert territories controlled by the Hussite Bohemia)
Secondly, Reformation - more provinces become protestant.
Thirdly, Jean Cauvin - activation of the Reformed faith; then the periodical province-triggered events make provinces reformed.
The next stages of religious reforms go like in the vanilla GC.
 
Pritestant Bohemia has the capacity to become a great power if they sutvive, no doubt about that, but with Bohemia as a great power, both Bavaria and Hungary are weakened, not to mention that there usually is a great protestant alliance between Bohemia, Bavaria and Hansa (since Bavaria sometimes convert to protestantism).
 
yourworstnightm said:
Pritestant Bohemia has the capacity to become a great power if they sutvive, no doubt about that, but with Bohemia as a great power, both Bavaria and Hungary are weakened, not to mention that there usually is a great protestant alliance between Bohemia, Bavaria and Hansa (since Bavaria sometimes convert to protestantism).

Hungary ought to be weakened from its present position. AI Bavaria, on the other hand, has problems with its diplomacy, as it keeps force-annexing HRE minors. Militarily it does fine until everyone gangs up on it because it's got 30+ BB. The idea of the Hussites getting foreign support would be that Bohemia would still probably be destroyed eventually, but it would take longer and at a greater cost to Hungary and Bavaria than it is at present.
 
I see that my ideas from the first post failed (I'm right, am I not?), so let this thread be for all discussions about the Central Europe nations...


I have two questions...

1. Why Poland doesn't have claims on Danzig? I think it wouldn't totally back down from that area so easily...

2. The Kalmar Union has many events about selling claims on lost territories. It's one of the options, but not the default. Why not make such events for the Hanseatic League? I think this merchant nation would have it as the standard choice...
 
M.A. said:
2. The Kalmar Union has many events about selling claims on lost territories. It's one of the options, but not the default. Why not make such events for the Hanseatic League? I think this merchant nation would have it as the standard choice...

Possibly, except that the Hansa gets a lot of cores on land it doesn't own, so we'd have to overhaul how we model Hanseatic expansion as well. Also, I don't think the Hansa would 'sell their cores' on cities that had been conquered by some enemy - the loyalty of the inhabitants of these cities to the League would be more than enough reason for the Hansa to want to regain control there.

The Hanseatic League is meant to be a collection of fairly independent city-states, or even just merchants within those cities, not a nation, and as such I don't think they should get cores on provinces unless there's an overriding strategic concern (Sjaelland) or they'd be welcomed by the burghers of the province. I was thinking of a set of events as follows to reflect the Hansa's unusual nature:

- Small countries that might reasonably want to join the League (eg Holland, Stettin, or even Tuscany if the League is powerful enough) should have a random event leading to the League inheriting, getting cores and losing centralisation (really the Hansa should sit near 0 centralisation for most of the game), on condition that the Hansa have low badboy and are neighbours of the relevant minor. In this way the League should be able to expand rapidly through peaceful means, as it did historically in the period before 1419 (and in Abe the Hansa is meant to be much more powerful than in real life).

- BUT the Hansa should also get random events 'XXX wants to leave the League' for a number of cities, excluding only the absolute heartland of the Hansa (ie Lübeck and a few nearby cities), when they have low stability and/or high BB (= bad for trade). They can then either allow them to leave or not, with significant penalties for trampling on the city's sovereignty and sending in troops to enforce its loyalty.
 
Incompetent said:
I was thinking of a set of events as follows to reflect the Hansa's unusual nature:

- Small countries that might reasonably want to join the League (eg Holland, Stettin, or even Tuscany if the League is powerful enough) should have a random event leading to the League inheriting, getting cores and losing centralisation (really the Hansa should sit near 0 centralisation for most of the game), on condition that the Hansa have low badboy and are neighbours of the relevant minor. In this way the League should be able to expand rapidly through peaceful means, as it did historically in the period before 1419 (and in Abe the Hansa is meant to be much more powerful than in real life).

I support these ideas. I think it could be such an event (here are Hansa and Tuscany - just for example):

event = {
id = ???1
trigger = {
AND = {
neighbor = TOS
atwar = no
stability = 1 # Country fallen in anarchy can't pursue active foreign policies
relation = { country = TOS value = 50 } # good relations are required for such an agreement
countrysize = 5 # Too small Hansa doesn't have required power and prestige
NOT = { badboy = 10 }
}
}
random = no
country = HSA
name = "Authority of the Hanseatic League grows" # or something another
desc = "(some description)"
style = 1

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 0
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1819 } # other date?

action_a ={
name = "Propose annexation"
command = { type = stability value = 3 }
command = { type = trigger which = ???2 }
}

action_b ={
name = "We have no interest there"
command = { } # is there any command to insert here?
}
}

event = {
id = ???2
random = no
country = TOS
name = "Hansa offers us access to the League" # or something another
desc = "(some description)"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Yes, of course (game over)"
command = { type = trigger which = ???3 }
}

action_b ={
name = "No, we want to save our independence"
command = { type = stability value = -1 } # The merchants are upset
command = { type = relation which = HSA value = -100 }
# anything more?
}
}

event = {
id = ???3
random = no
country = HSA
name = "Tuscany accepts" # or something another
desc = "(some description)"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Great"
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 }
command = { type = inherit which = TOS }
command = { type = addcore which = 401 }
command = { type = badboy value = -5 } # prestige grows
}
}

Also give to Hansa event "Tuscany (or someone else) refuses"?
 
That's basically what I was thinking of, but I'd make a few changes: the Hansa shouldn't get -BB after inheriting Tuscany (it wouldn't make other powers any less worried about the League), and for such a distant country from Lübeck, the League should already be pretty powerful, say countrysize 20 or more.
 
I thought also about such an event...

Name: "XXX (for example Tuscany) refuses to join the Hanseatic League" - triggered by option B in ???2.
Some description.
Action A: "Don't make more tension"
Diplomats -1, anything more?
Action B: "We will grab their territories anyway"
+core provinces, war with XXX, badboy +10 (it isn't in style of the League)

What do You think about it?