New Traits You'd Like to See in CK2

[The Kingmaker]

I just started to think of a few of these, and so I thought it might be a fun thread to start.

Murderer: Kill thousands on the battlefield and you're a hero. Kill one man inside a church and you're a murderer. -x prestige, -x piety, -2 intrigue (because no one will ever trust you in a dark alley ever again.)

Alcoholic: "Just one more!" Epic bouts of binge-drinking every night do not a great leader make. -1 to all stats

Paranoid: It's not paranoia if everyone really does hate you and want to kill you. - 2 diplomacy, -x prestige, +1 to personal health or resistance to assassins?

Outlaw: His lord has declared him to be outside the law and its protections. His neighbors will surely act accordingly. (Basically this one would be the secular equivalent of excommunication.)

Corrupt: Somehow other people's money is always winding up in his coffers. +1 stewardship, +5% income, -x prestige

Charismatic: People are drawn to his magnetic personality. His men would follow him straight into the jaws of hell. Women follow him to other places. +1 Diplomacy, +1 Martial, greater likelihood of siring children

I was also thinking that having progressive talents akin to the first Medieval Total War game might be nice. I thought that one had more balanced traits than some of the later games in that series.

Even cooler would be having a couple of different paths the traits might take. For instance, having the "zealous" trait could potentially lead to becoming either a sword-toting crusader psychopath or a gentle, celibate, cloister-loving monk.

What other traits would you like to see?

 

[Calgacus]

I'm fine with more traits.

I have a problem with two of your traits:
Outlaw: Not going to effect anyone of significance in the game, counts, dukes, kings and so on; leave it out
Murderer: In its medieval sense, this means killing someone and hiding it. Killing someone, whether in a church or elsewhere, is not murder, nor necessarily bad so long as you make it public knowledge that it has happened. This way, the community can assess the situation, arrange the compensation for the kingroup, lord and so on.

I would like to see the homosexual trait in the game. I'd also like a eunuch trait.

 

[EviLaz]

Well, I'd like to see two traits. Good and Evil. Possibly only being gained through having a history of good or bad deeds. Like whether or not you steal enemy relics, or commit an act of cruelty, or in the other instance, share your beer or NOT sleep with some young girl at court. I'd like to see them add to diplomacy some how, good characters not dealing with evil characters, or going to war against them... evil and evil can team up... Just a thought. I recently played an Irish king that ordered 5 children assassinated... so it was on my mind.

 

[LordofSaxony]

I think having a fair share of evil/vile/rude/disgusting/etc traits should be in the game. It adds a bit of character.

 

[magritte2]

I'm fine with more traits.

I have a problem with two of your traits:
Outlaw: Not going to effect anyone of significance in the game, counts, dukes, kings and so on; leave it out
Murderer: In its medieval sense, this means killing someone and hiding it. Killing someone, whether in a church or elsewhere, is not murder, nor necessarily bad so long as you make it public knowledge that it has happened. This way, the community can assess the situation, arrange the compensation for the kingroup, lord and so on.

I would like to see the homosexual trait in the game. I'd also like a eunuch trait.

Maybe a "sodomite" trait rather than homosexual, since it wasn't typically viewed as an exclusive preference at the time, more like a vice.

How about a cuckold trait? I think there should be more downside to tolerating your wife's affairs than there seemed to be in Deus Vult.

Attractive and ugly.

I don't like evil as a trait, it's too non-specific--I'd rather stick with things like cruel, heretic, lustful etc.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Squire - basic martial training a young boy would receive in castle something like Martial +1 whatever,
Footman - this guy prefers to fight on foot, could be developed into some bonuses with commanding infantry bla bla whatever Martial bonus
Knight - same as above, but basically with horse and heavy cavalry or knights, Martial bonus
Ambush(er?) - this guy likes to use small regiments of light cavalry to harass enemy regiments, bonus with light cavalry bla bla Martial
Crusader / Crusader Mentor - this guy was in the middle east / was trained or influenced by someone who was in the middle east. Their way of fighting is somewhat different than European, and requires basic intelligence of this person, it leads to what ppl call today "thinking outside of box" but in military terms - Martial idk

Obsessive - when this person wants something, they REALLY want it, today we treat this with medications, could lead to various other developments, from cheating wife, lust, idk alot of stuff could go wrong from here?
Absolutist - this person really hates any kind of authority, if theyre king/queen they will dislike having strong aristocracy, if theyre vassal they will hate being vassal
Alchemist - this person really wants to turn iron into gold, knowing properties of different poisons cant hurt in ur daily court life?
Strongminded (if thats even a word hmm) - could lead into many different personality developments, as well as influence different characters.
Weakminded - same thing, just a variation

U could also have a number of traits in characters youth that could be related to some kind of apprenticeship. For example u could be smith's apprentice (makes u big, strong), builders apprentice (makes u kinda smart), priest's apprentice (makes u close to the church) etc.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I'm fine with more traits.

I have a problem with two of your traits:
Outlaw: Not going to effect anyone of significance in the game, counts, dukes, kings and so on; leave it out
Murderer: In its medieval sense, this means killing someone and hiding it. Killing someone, whether in a church or elsewhere, is not murder, nor necessarily bad so long as you make it public knowledge that it has happened. This way, the community can assess the situation, arrange the compensation for the kingroup, lord and so on.

"Outlaw" could most assuredly affect counts and dukes, though kings would by definition be immune. However, gaining the outlaw trait would usually of necessity involve losing your lands to your lord (unless you were able to fight it out and either successfully break free or strongarm your lord into revoking his decree). The Godwines (esp. Swegn, Tostig, and Godwine himself) had a big problem with getting outlawed, going into exile, and then coming back for vengeance with foreign mercenaries to reclaim their lands by force. I'm basically looking for something saying a lord has been banished but hasn't renounced his claims and is plotting to return. CK1 didn't have a system for anything like this.

As for murderer, if you don't like that definition you can always throw in "Sacrilege." It was a big deal that Robert the Bruce murdered John Comyn in a church. I will also say that different countries had different laws pertaining to murder, and the murderer's rank also affected his punishment, if any. Some Germanic nations would still have the wergild at the beginning of this time period as well. Perhaps murder would be better implemented by events than by a trait, though maybe someone with the reputation of a Vlad the Impaler deserves a special trait indicated their habit of committing mass killings or genocide.

 

[Calgacus]

"Outlaw" could most assuredly affect counts and dukes, though kings would by definition be immune. However, gaining the outlaw trait would usually of necessity involve losing your lands to your lord (unless you were able to fight it out and either successfully break free or strongarm your lord into revoking his decree). The Godwines (esp. Swegn, Tostig, and Godwine himself) had a big problem with getting outlawed, going into exile, and then coming back for vengeance with foreign mercenaries to reclaim their lands by force. I'm basically looking for something saying a lord has been banished but hasn't renounced his claims and is plotting to return. CK1 didn't have a system for anything like this.

Doesn't make sense. "Counts" can be assumed to be in control of the law in most parts of the map. How can they be "outlaws"? They are the law. And if they lose their provinces they aren't playable in the game.

 

[Melichai]

So long as its possible/easy to mod traits or add new ones I'll be happy. I've a couple of ideas for traits that are too specific to Gaelic/Anglo-Irish/English in 11th -13th century Ireland to be broadly applicable to wider Europe (indeed given Gaelic Ireland was wholly alien to Frankish/Norman/Latin Europe a lot of the broader traits dont make much sense locally), but Id like the opportunity to tweak some or add others specific to characters born in particular cultures/regions.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Doesn't make sense. "Counts" can be assumed to be in control of the law in most parts of the map. How can they be "outlaws"? They are the law. And if they lose their provinces they aren't playable in the game.

Well sure. As I said, they'd either lose their provinces or be in open revolt. However, what do you do with individuals who are banished and go into exile? In CK1, they just end up being random members of other people's courts. So I'd like to see a more realistic way of handling banishments. The trait was just one suggestion.

 

[Emperor Walter]

Doesn't make sense. "Counts" can be assumed to be in control of the law in most parts of the map. How can they be "outlaws"? They are the law. And if they lose their provinces they aren't playable in the game.

Outlaw should be in the game. Duke Henry the Lion was outlawed for refusing to appear before the Imperial Court.

 

[King of Men]

Rather than 'Outlaw', how about 'Exiled' or 'Banished'? Similarly, poor men are crazy where rich ones are eccentric. It could work somewhat similarly to the current Fosterling system, and would also share some traits with the Government-in-Exile system from HoI3.

Rather than more traits as such, I'd like to see the existing ones better managed. In CK1 you tend to end up with a long list of traits more or less randomly picked from the bucket. First idea off the top of my head: Have a "Try to lose (or gain) trait" mechanism similar to the current research, representing your character's deliberate efforts at reforming himself. It could give the diocese bishop something to do: Presumably he is your character's confessor, so a good one would help with trying to get rid of, say, Indulgent. Forty Ave Marias a night will help anyone's willpower.

 

[Arizal]

I think having a fair share of evil/vile/rude/disgusting/etc traits should be in the game. It adds a bit of character.

I strongly disagree with the idea of classing the traits between good and evil, I like traits which are ambiguous, like "agressive" or "quiet" and don't want to have unreal characters, even if we already have some of this in the original game (I mean unreal like in incredibely evil character all along, I don't talk about exceptions or historical characters). I think every character should have is "good" and "less good" treats, which give to them a personality that could be applied on the Kingdom they govern (if they do).

 

[The Kingmaker]

Rather than 'Outlaw', how about 'Exiled' or 'Banished'? Similarly, poor men are crazy where rich ones are eccentric. It could work somewhat similarly to the current Fosterling system, and would also share some traits with the Government-in-Exile system from HoI3.

Well, I preferred "outlaw" due to the added flavor of understanding that their overlord has actually seen fit to declare them outside the law. Anybody who shelters them or grants them safe conduct is in as much trouble as they are. There's an awful stigma associated with that. After all, you can be exiled without being outlawed, but it's not as bad as actually being declared an enemy of the state.

 

[King of Men]

I don't think there's that strong a distinction. An exile is to be killed on sight if he sets foot in his homeland again; he usually has a grace period to get out, then after that, not only is he not under the law's protection, there's a price on his head! And I also think that exile was a more common punishment for nobles, for the good and simple reason that outlawing someone with his own powerbase and personally-loyal army is unlikely to be effective.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I don't think there's that strong a distinction. An exile is to be killed on sight if he sets foot in his homeland again; he usually has a grace period to get out, then after that, not only is he not under the law's protection, there's a price on his head! And I also think that exile was a more common punishment for nobles, for the good and simple reason that outlawing someone with his own powerbase and personally-loyal army is unlikely to be effective.

Well, in actuality it's an outlaw that is to be killed on sight if he sets foot in his homeland again, etc. Whereas it is possible to be in exile from one's homeland without there being an official decree commanding it (Edward the Exile for example, who fled in fear of his life without ever being officially banished), being outlawed involves the specific prescription that you listed.

For example, after the Earl of Hereford Swegn Godwinson kidnapped and raped the Abbess of Leominster, King Edward the Confessor outlawed him. He had a brief period of safe conduct to leave the country, and after that he was never to return, on pain of death. Emperor Frederick Barbarossa outlawed Duke Henry the Lion for failing to support his military campaign (and a great many other reasons). When Henry resisted, Frederick invaded his lands to forcibly eject him.

 

[King of Men]

I guess I don't really care that much about the issue. Nonetheless, I think that for most English speakers 'Outlaw' has connotations of Robin Hood, while 'Exile' has connotations of governments-in-exile and emigre aristocrats.

 

[Calgacus]

Outlaw should be in the game. Duke Henry the Lion was outlawed for refusing to appear before the Imperial Court.

The kings of France frequently "forfeited" their rivals the kings of England ... That's not really what "outlawing" means in our usage. And we have other mechanisms for dealing with rebellious vassals. If a king says a duke is no longer protected by the king's law, then it's pretty irrelevant unless the king turns up with an army.

 

[magritte2]

We do, however, need a way to keep banished courtiers from returning to your court after a few months. The problem with doing that via trait is that it's liege-specific, not a general trait.

 

[King of Men]

There's already a mechanism for having people at court X but returning them to court Y, and having a trait showing why: Fosterlings. Expand a bit on that and you could get a good exile mechanic going.