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unmerged(31994)

Zardishar
Jul 15, 2004
1.085
0
Playing the Game several times, the Caliphate monster has pepped down , now theyre having a bit more difficulty in taking Persia, and KOJ at once and they get defeated several times.However, I noticed a recurring problem with North Africa - it always comes under Christian control.

My Suggestions? Raise the tec of Tlemscen, Algeirs, Beleres, Tunis, Triploi and Morocco to orthodox to represent it's relative closeness to al-Andalus.I also suggest raising tax levels and pop.

North African States

Tlemscen

Rules all of Algeirs, Tunis and Tripoli - Usually, it should break apart regarding the Christian ultimatium, but if player controlled (or sheer luck) ;) - she can turn to the Almohads and control Sicily.Tlemscen or the Almoads would go against the Mutazelite heresy as a defender of Orthodoxy - but can go that path if she wishes with some punishment either way.

Morocco

Im thinking Morocco should be abberated.Historically when the Almohads collapsed, the Merdinand Sultanate appeared, and then the successive dynasties.These Sultanates mostly focused on helping the Muslims of Spain and fighting off the Christian incursions.Thusly, they would have had more resources to go around and would have attacked West Africa and invaded Timbuktu earlier.

I suggest we give them Timbuktu - and a Subjegation of the Sahel Event sequence for the control of West Africa.Later in the game, in the 15th century, if Morocco dosent get mastery over Cordoba, we can give them a colonial direction towards Brazil - Historically, al-Mansur of Morocco wanted to move there.

Tunis, Tripli, Algeirs

I dunno, there not "core" nations, or at least, not in the begining of the game.
 
Tlemcen sounds ok, they won't grow fat that often.

For Marocco I think they should be Cordoba's poor country cousin that more and more grows toward a Cordoban puppet state with a purpose to guard Cordoban interrests in Africa. A dynastical crisis when the Marinid dynasty dies and the Caliph of Cordoba want to send his son to marocco could be nice. Then the choices are to welcome the son as the new sultan, and continue being a servant of the andalusi or choose an own new dynasty and break up from the andalusi dominace. Also Cordoba's choice of religion should create a reaction from Marocco. However the normal way for Marocco should be a Cordoban friendly policy.
 
yourworstnightm said:
Tlemcen sounds ok, they won't grow fat that often.

For Marocco I think they should be Cordoba's poor country cousin that more and more grows toward a Cordoban puppet state with a purpose to guard Cordoban interrests in Africa. A dynastical crisis when the Marinid dynasty dies and the Caliph of Cordoba want to send his son to marocco could be nice. Then the choices are to welcome the son as the new sultan, and continue being a servant of the andalusi or choose an own new dynasty and break up from the andalusi dominace. Also Cordoba's choice of religion should create a reaction from Marocco. However the normal way for Marocco should be a Cordoban friendly policy.

Cordoba and Morocco already have a pathway towards a puppet master relationship and unity for both realms.

Well the Merdinand Sultanate was a "Jihadist" State - and Cordoba dosent exert much influence and power at that time in history as it was busy fighting off the Christians.The Merdinand Sultanate is far older than the scope of the game in 1419.

My idea was - that since their efforts to help the Muslims of Spain were somewhat less - due to the fact that most of the Muslim Taifas survived - they would attempt to invade the Sahel or West Africa earlier.It gives them a somewhat bloated importance in the region and somewhat impends Cordoba from diplo annexing them.They also become a dual colonizer other than Cordoba.
 
Calipah,

As usual, I really like your ideas and the big-picture concepts. I especially like that the Tangiers/Morocco area would do better not having to support Cordoba against the infidel christians.

However, I think that in writing the Moroccan events, support for Cordoba needs to be a section in there. Because what happens when someone plays Asturias and effects a reconquista and separates southern Iberia from the true faith of Islam? Surely then the Moroccans would do the 'historical' thing and push there resources that way.

As for the rest of North Africa, there are a couple of issues. First, I do not want to see them starting in a higher tech category. They should earn that. The reason they get knocked over so many times by the Europeans is that the game is currently set upo that way, with the Genoese Alexandria events and the Sicilians getting cultures in North Africa. Although we have not gottn to reforming these files yet, all of the discussions about what to do pointed to removing those cultures from Sicily - or at least making them a LOT harder to get). W would also want to add in more revolts against Christians, that will making it a tougher prospect. Realistically, it should not be in the interest of most European cultures to want to subdue North Africa, not unless we write for them storylines that have some form of cultural 'coming together', but it would need to take a long time to have a real effect, ie Siciliy gaining 'berber' culture, for example.

Matty
 
Calipah,

I have not gotten the computer back so work, such as it is, proceeds slowly still.

For Tlemcen, I need a few things back from you. Does Tlemcen have a flag/shield already? Do they/did they exist in another version of EU2. We will need to give them a flag/shield and I cannot make these.

If you don't already know of one, there are many Islamic nation style shields on Kaigon's site that may be useful.

http://medlem.spray.se/kaigon/

Matty
 
MattyG said:
Calipah,

I have not gotten the computer back so work, such as it is, proceeds slowly still.

For Tlemcen, I need a few things back from you. Does Tlemcen have a flag/shield already? Do they/did they exist in another version of EU2. We will need to give them a flag/shield and I cannot make these.

If you don't already know of one, there are many Islamic nation style shields on Kaigon's site that may be useful.

http://medlem.spray.se/kaigon/

Matty

Actually, its in the AGCEEP and I believe...

Anyway I would upload it - but since Saudi has ALSO blocked tinypic - I will have to upload it in the scenario files.
 
Calipah said:
Actually, its in the AGCEEP and I believe...

Anyway I would upload it - but since Saudi has ALSO blocked tinypic - I will have to upload it in the scenario files.

Ah, OK, I'll et it from AGCEEP.

So, that's where you live?

Hot there?
 
MattyG said:
Ah, OK, I'll et it from AGCEEP.

So, that's where you live?

Hot there?

:D Thought you already knew - yeah , though the weathers great now.
 
Some scripted events for Morocco!

Morocco should control Timbuktu, Azoudh, Medinnan, Tassert (pop around...hmmmm...800?) , losses cores in Oran, Atlas (dont want them to come in conflict with the Tlemscenians) but in the same time, gains cores in Timbuktu.Has Arabic, Berber and Andalusi culture.


event = {
id = ?????
random = no
country = MOR
name = "The Resolution of a Struggle"
desc = "The Marinids old vizier family known as the Wattasids, took over formal control of Morocco in 1419. But the truth is that the Wattasids had been the real rulers for more than 50 years already, mastering and maintaining the Gold and Salt routes of the Desert whilst ruling the Maghrib. In fact, Yahyâ al-Wattâsî took advantage in 1400 of the Marinid weakness and started a formal regency in Marrakech.The country was divided into a Southern Wattasidi sphere and a northern Merdinandi sphere.The fighting escalated to a high pitch in 1411 in the battle of el-Basta, where the last Merdinand Ruler, Abu Sayfun was killed with the bulk of his army.However, Yahya did not enter Fez until 1418 due to the rebellion of Emir Hazim el-Tangi who carved a small princedom for himself on the Tizi Wozo cross.Yahya feared the loss of Timbuktu to the Emir's forces, and thus, rushed to the south where he fought Hazim in a phony war in the mountains and deserts of the Sahara.Luckly for Yahya,the Emir's rebellion came to an abrunt end when he was killed by his own guards in a general mutiney of the berbers.The forces of the Emir quickly fell into disorder, and Yahya was able to subdue the south and enter Fas in tiumph. Morocco was united once again, and this time, under competant rule."
style = 4
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419}

action_a ={
name = "Morocco is reborn anew"

}
}


event = {
id = ??????
random = no
country = MOR
name = "Morocco's Imperial trappings"
desc = "Morocco had always concerned herself with al-Andalus, and rightly so, she shared an Imperial heritage with the Muslims of Spain under both the Almoravids and Almohads.During the trublent years, Morocco had pledged both funds and men to the Muslims of Iberia.However, by the begining of the 14th century, the political and social situation in al-Andalus was stabalizing as the Muslims scored victories against the infidel and it was obvios to all those involved that the conflict was coming to a resolution,and in turn Morocco's influence and presence in al-Andalus waned.Their work in Iberia at an end, the new Wattasid regency looked elsewhere.The great informal Sultan Yahyâ al-Wattâsî(also Vizier of the Merdinand Sultan) thus decided to gamble in Africa, sending a Moorish expedition in 1382.They returned laden with Gold and Wealth, and spoke of great Kingdoms in the interior.The Sultan immediatly sent other expeditions of Military nature.Most of these regiments fought off the tuaregs and berbers plauging the Tizi Wozo cross, though some were lucky to reach Airs and Agades.The Wattasids constructed countless forts, wells and caravanesaries to act as supply depots for their military intrigues in Africa.These measures aided the Moroccan army in the crossing of the Sahara and the capture of Timbuktu in 1399.The control of the city brought Great wealth to Morocco and marked the begining of a new Empire in Africa.However, the two decade civil war which followed after the Wattasid regency was declared in Marakech hampered any new advances into the interior of Africa, and had resulted in much disorder throughout the Sahel.Sultan Yahya attempted to undo the damages done on the Tizi Wozo path by Emir Hazim .As such, he re-organzied the garrisons and installed new miltias, whilst repairing the many alcazars dotting the crossing.He installed a new office in Timbuktu called the Wilaya el-Afariqa 'Governship of the Africans' to overlook the domestic matters of the Sahel and the issues of berbers, tuaregs and Malinese in Timbuktu.The Ulema of Timbuktu were also won over by the persuasion of Sultan Yahya and a few Gold coins. "

style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1425 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1430

action_a ={
name = "Repair the Crossing and Install the Office"
}
action_b ={
name = "Repair the Crossing only"
}
action_c ={
name = "Install the Office only"
}
action_d ={
name = "We cannot afford it"
}
}
}

# Consolidation of the Sahel

event = {
id = ??????
random = no
country = MOR
name = "Africa Bows to the Moors"
desc = "With Timbuktu firmly under the grip of the Sultanate, the Moroccans attempted to project and exert their influence over the rest of the Sahel .The Sultan sent an embassy in 1438 to Gao demanding the Asika to pay a yearly tribute of around two mithkals of Gold.Perhaps not realizing the power of the Sultanate, the Emperor scoffed at the Sultan's demands and executed the Moorish Ambassador.This gave the Sultan the pretext to invade Songhai."

style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1438 }
offset = 120
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1438 }

action_a ={
name = "Such a crime will not go unpunished"# gains cores in Gao and Jinni
}
action_b ={
name = "Very well barbarian,we will return"

}
event = {
id = ??????
random = no
trigger = Control of Gao and Jinni
country = MOR
name = "The Moorish presence in the Sudan"
desc = "The Moorish conquest of the Sahel did not only bring a new power to the region, it also brought a cultural and social revolution to the Sudan.New techniques in agriculture,technology, and industry were hailed to the interior of Africa with the Moroccan invaders, benifiting the African populace.The Sultanate installed two new offices for Jinni and Gao, and rebuilt the Grand Mosque of Mansa Musa using marble rather than sand stone.Of course, the Moorish occupation of the Sudan was not all peaceful, as berbers and tuaregs still raided and attacked the countryside and distrupted trade.The Sultan thus, attempted to quell the berbers and tuaregs in hope of bringing order to the Sudan."

style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = december year = 1438 }
offset = 120
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1450 }

action_a ={
name = "Install the Offices"
}
action_b ={
name = "The berbers will taste the tip of my sword!"

}

# The Move to Fez

event = {
id = ?????
trigger = {
owned = { province = 733 data = -1 }
}
random = no
country = MOR
name = "Fas, the New Imperial Capital"
desc = "Our Sultan wishes to move his capital from Marakech to the rich and more cultured city of Fez.Moving the north would put us closer to our North African and European counterparts and expose the Maghrib to the world, but at the same time it would also lessen our influence from the Sudan as most of our colonial offices are in Marackech.This may cause problems in the future,and I caution you that the move to Fez might take years as we need time to prepare the city for the Sultan."

style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = august year = 1457 }
offset = 60
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1460 }

action_a ={
name = "Prepare to move to Fez"# Next event moves capital to Fez

}
action_b ={
name = "I prefer Marakech"
}
}

# triggered by the move

event = {
id = ?????
random = no
country = MOR
name = "Magnificent Imperial Fez"
desc = "Built by the Fatamid Yusuf bin Tashfin, the city of Fez was relatively young in comparison to the rest of the cities of North Africa.Fez had evolved into a seat of intellectual and artistic learning, similar to the cities of Andalucia.Boasting a population of around 100 thousand inhabitants in the 15th century, it was one of the largest cities in North Africa.When the Wattasid Regency moved their capital to the north, it marked the begining of a Morocco more involved with diplomacy and international affairs. "

style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1462 }
offset = 120
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1465 }

action_a ={
name = "Excellent "
}
}

###############################################
Random events for Morocco
###############################################

#Raids! events

event = {
id = ????
random = yes
country = MOR

name = "Berber raid!"
desc = "The berber and tuareg clans habitually attacked Moorish villages and towns, raiding and sacking throughout the Tizi Wozo Cross."

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1550 }
style = 0

action_a ={
name = "The berbers are upon us!"

}

event = {
id = ?????
random = yes
country = MOR
name = "Gold and Slaves"
desc = "Many exotic goods such as Salt,Gold,ebony,ivory and Slaves passed through the Tizi Wozo Cross.Moorish traders and Merchants had established many trade routes across the Sahara and Goods flowed to and fro Morocco.All this gave the Sultanate a steady revenue reaped from Merchantile taxes imposed on imports and exports."

action_a = {
name = "Excellent"

}
}
 
Hmm, if Marocco is reaching south, maybe we need a power in Africa ready to counter the berber movement (and if Cordoba DA a expansionistic Marocco it will be HUUGE). What about the ressurection of the Empire of Mali to counter Maroccoan influence.
 
yourworstnightm said:
Hmm, if Marocco is reaching south, maybe we need a power in Africa ready to counter the berber movement (and if Cordoba DA a expansionistic Marocco it will be HUUGE). What about the ressurection of the Empire of Mali to counter Maroccoan influence.

Well, its an "Arab" movement, remember, berbers were considered second class citizens by the Arabs and Andalusians ;) my intents are to make all of the North African nations having "arabic" culture to represent the Arab aristocracy and power.Of course, theres no given that they would remain as such.

An Emirate of Mali...hmmmm, I will see what I can do, gotta read up on West African history! :D
 
# Morocco Monarchs (fixed to be made compatible with Cordoban Moroccan dynasty)

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07840 }
startdate = {
year = 1419
}
deathdate = {
year = 1448
}
name = "Yahyâ al-Wattâsî"
DIP = 7
MIL = 8
ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07841 }
startdate = {
year = 1448
}
deathdate = {
year = 1458
}
name = "`Alî"
DIP = 5
MIL = 5
ADM = 5
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07842 }
startdate = {
year = 1458
}
deathdate = {
year = 1504
}
name = "Muhammad I"
DIP = 4
MIL = 6
ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07843 }
startdate = {
year = 1504
}
deathdate = {
year = 1510
}
name = "Muhammad II al-Burtuqûlî"
DIP = 8
MIL = 4
ADM = 3
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07844 }
startdate = {
year = 1510
}
deathdate = {
year = 1517
}
name = "Muhammad I al-Qa'im"
DIP = 6
MIL = 8
ADM = 6
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07845 }
startdate = {
year = 1517
}
deathdate = {
day = 26
month = september
year = 1525
}
name = "Ahmad al A`raj"
DIP = 5
MIL = 7
ADM = 3
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 07846 }
startdate = {
day = 26
month = september
year = 1525
}
deathdate = {
day = 23
month = october
year = 1557
}
name = "Muhammad II"
DIP = 7
MIL = 5
ADM = 6
}

# Sa'did Dynasty, Moroccan Sultanate #
# 1566 - 1659 #

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32382 }
startdate = {
day = 23
month = october
year = 1557
}
deathdate = {
day = 21
month = january
year = 1574
}
name = "Abd'Allah al-Ghalib"
DIP = 6
ADM = 9
MIL = 7
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32383 }
startdate = {
day = 23
month = january
year = 1574
}
deathdate = {
day = 4
month = august
year = 1578
}
name = "Muhammad XVI"
DIP = 6
ADM = 3
MIL = 4
dormant = yes
remark = "Not the same as the Yahwar monarch"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32384 }
startdate = {
day = 4
month = august
year = 1578
}
deathdate = {
day = 19
month = august
year = 1603
}
name = "Ahmad I al-Mansur"
DIP = 3
ADM = 5
MIL = 8
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32385 }
startdate = {
day = 2
month = august
year = 1609
}
deathdate = {
day = 27
month = september
year = 1627
}
name = "Zaydân an-Nasr"
DIP = 4
ADM = 3
MIL = 4
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32386 }
startdate = {
day = 28
month = september
year = 1627
}
deathdate = {
day = 10
month = february
year = 1631
}
name = "`Abd al-Malik"
DIP = 2
ADM = 3
MIL = 4
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32387 }
startdate = {
day = 11
month = february
year = 1631
}
deathdate = {
day = 21
month = february
year = 1636
}
name = "al-Walîd"
DIP = 3
ADM = 3
MIL = 2
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32388 }
startdate = {
day = 22
month = february
year = 1636
}
deathdate = {
year = 1654
}
name = "Muhammad XVII"
DIP = 4
ADM = 4
MIL = 3
dormant = yes
remark = "Also not the same as the Yahwar monarch"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32389 }
startdate = {
year = 1654
}
deathdate = {
year = 1659
}
name = "Ahmad II al-`Abbas"
DIP = 2
ADM = 4
MIL = 2
dormant = yes
}

# Alawi Dynasty, Moroccan Sultanate #
# 1635 - 1819 #

historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32390 }
startdate = {
day = 22
month = february
year = 1635
}
deathdate = {
year = 1664
}
name = "Muhammad XVII"
DIP = 6
ADM = 7
MIL = 7
dormant = yes
remark = "Different monarch from Yahwar and Sa'did dynasties"
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32391 }
startdate = {
year = 1664
}
deathdate = {
day = 27
month = march
year = 1672
}
name = "ar-Rashid"
DIP = 6
ADM = 7
MIL = 8
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32392 }
startdate = {
day = 27
month = march
year = 1672
}
deathdate = {
day = 21
month = march
year = 1727
}
name = "Ismail IV"
DIP = 8
ADM = 9
MIL = 9
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32393 }
startdate = {
day = 6
month = march
year = 1727
}
deathdate = {
day = 8
month = november
year = 1757
}
name = "Abd`Allah II"
DIP = 4
ADM = 8
MIL = 4
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32394 }
startdate = {
day = 9
month = november
year = 1757
}
deathdate = {
day = 10
month = april
year = 1790
}
name = "Muhammad XVIII"
DIP = 7
ADM = 7
MIL = 5
dormant = yes
}
historicalmonarch = {
id = { type = 6 id = 32395 }
startdate = {
day = 16
month = february
year = 1790
}
deathdate = {
year = 1822
}
name = "Suleiman I"
DIP = 5
ADM = 3
MIL = 6
dormant = yes
}