North American Native Ideas/Native Cultures

[tk421991]

One of the things that bugs me about EUIV is how most Native American tribes have ideas that are rather generic to them, without much flavor. The tribes aren't broken down into geographical regions, like say New England tribes, Southern tribes, Plains Nations, etc., with the exception of the Pacific Northwest tribes.

I have to imagine that this is because many people simply think that there isn't written, available texts describing native cultures. Is this true?

One source I personally know of is Roger Williams's A Key into the Language of America. This describes the language and culture of tribes in what is now Rhode Island, and to a lesser extent Massachusetts and Connecticut.

https://archive.org/details/keyintolanguageo02will

Honestly, looking into Roger Williams and his life and times would be pretty good for EU, since he basically stated that the whole premise of European colonization of the Americas was based on a lie - that the continent was empty (a lot like how EU's North America is empty).

I've done research into the history of colonial New England, with a specific focus on real estate transactions. Natives fully understood the concept of owning, renting, leasing, maintaining and developing land. I'd be happy to help out, but my knowledge is limited to New England. I do know some things about say the Plains Nations, since they were involved with the Fur Trade and came up during the Lewis and Clark expedition, but I'm no expert.

 

[3ishop]

issue is more gameplay, thats why they don't split them up. With so few tribes in game and so little content for them.

 

[tk421991]

issue is more gameplay, thats why they don't split them up. With so few tribes in game and so little content for them.

I've always thought EU needs a lot more tribes for North America. Three easy ones - Wampanoag, Narragansett and the Mohegan.

As for gameplay, I think provinces should be based on a percentage of colonists/natives. That would be more realistic and accurate. You could still use the colonist mechanism, but you'd need the colonial population to exceed the native population by say 200% to 500%. That wouldn't be hard considering there were 20,000 Puritans that moved to New England between 1620 and 1640 versus a few thousand natives of various tribes.

 

[3ishop]

I've always thought EU needs a lot more tribes for North America. Three easy ones - Wampanoag, Narragansett and the Mohegan.

As for gameplay, I think provinces should be based on a percentage of colonists/natives. That would be more realistic and accurate. You could still use the colonist mechanism, but you'd need the colonial population to exceed the native population by say 200% to 500%. That wouldn't be hard considering there were 20,000 Puritans that moved to New England between 1620 and 1640 versus a few thousand natives of various tribes.

Problem is the ratio doesn't equal control of the province. Africa the Europeans were dwarfed by most of the local tribes but were able to dominate the local region.

I think more trade bonuses would work, along with as others have suggested before on a supply cripple in the colonies so you look to native allies to help expand.

 

[tk421991]

Problem is the ratio doesn't equal control of the province. Africa the Europeans were dwarfed by most of the local tribes but were able to dominate the local region.

I think more trade bonuses would work, along with as others have suggested before on a supply cripple in the colonies so you look to native allies to help expand.

Historically, most of Africa wasn't colonized or even explored in EU's timeframe by Europeans. The biggest two regions during EU's timeframe were in what is now South Africa and small trading posts in Senegal, for instance. The attrition from disease in both humans and draught animals/horses was simply too high elsewhere. The Cape region of South Africa was inhabited by the Khoisan, who number about 100,000 today. If EU went to a percentage-based colonization system and kept things like "attack natives", you could still get the ratio down to a more favorable position without having a ton of colonists being required.

Native allies are also something that needs to be tuned. In EU, you could never really pull off a Hernan Cortes or Francisco Pizarro-esque conquest of native countries, where a few hundred Castilians take over a native empire with help from Aztec-oppressed natives. Or, say for instance the Pequot War, which in EU would just be an English army and a Pequot army standing somewhere and attacking the natives at the same time.

What I'm thinking of is, rather than having provinces as "empty", have independent tribes in them. In order to compensate for the lack of "empty space", allow colonists to colonize "occupied territory", with obvious consequences and results.

 

[Trin Tragula]

There are many hundreds of tags in the game and up to now focus has been on making sure none use the plain base idea set. We are almost there but ideas take time to write and research so it's all a matter of priorities.

If you suggest new ideas for Native American tags that are well researched and written they'll have a good chance to get added to the game

 

[Evie HJ]

Information on many of these tribes is scant outside highly specialized sources (that you need to shell a pretty penny for) or highly outdated ones that are available freely online ; and often more focused on linguistic interrelations and general cultural observations. In addition, many of these sources depict tribal cultures in the nineteenth century, or even the twentieth ; refering to events that happened outside the game's timeframe. Some of those tribes were virtually unknown to western sources until after the timeframe.

Putting together national idea lists from that information is no easy task.

 

[tk421991]

There are many hundreds of tags in the game and up to now focus has been on making sure none use the plain base idea set. We are almost there but ideas take time to write and research so it's all a matter of priorities.

If you suggest new ideas for Native American tags that are well researched and written they'll have a good chance to get added to the game

Let me do some research this week for Pequot, Mahican and Abenaki. Those three are the easiest for me to get info for. I may also find some things for the Sioux and Comanche.

Edit: is there any chance of Paradox being able to add the Narragansett and Wampanoag tribes? During King Philip's War, the most destructive war in colonial American history, the colonists and Pequot were up against the Narragansett and Wampanoag in Southern New England. These two "enemy" tribes also led a confederation and were able to coordinate attacks all over New England, not just in a localized area.

Information on many of these tribes is scant outside highly specialized sources (that you need to shell a pretty penny for) or highly outdated ones that are available freely online ; and often more focused on linguistic interrelations and general cultural observations. In addition, many of these sources depict tribal cultures in the nineteenth century, or even the twentieth ; refering to events that happened outside the game's timeframe. Some of those tribes were virtually unknown to western sources until after the timeframe.

Putting together national idea lists from that information is no easy task.

A lot of the national ideas for EU countries are based on general cultural observations. Take Nevers, for instance - the inspiration for many of their ideas can be found on Wikipedia:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_des_forges_du_Nivernais

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Coquille

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faience

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bridges_of_Nevers

https://books.google.com/books?id=4KnC4ROsiwwC&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=Morvan+Wet+Nurses&source=bl&ots=-wtucgTAae&sig=62eRGyUhPFJb7GU1bHBnmf6RtgM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi0_57KodnUAhUUS2MKHYILCUcQ6AEINTAC#v=onepage&q=Morvan Wet Nurses&f=false

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Châteaux_of_the_Loire_Valley

If Paradox were to buff the three tags I mentioned (PEQ, MAH and ABE), 16th through 18th Century first-hand sources plus modern archaeological evidence would be quite sufficient for giving them six national ideas plus three ambitions. Native tribes often took captives during wars and these people would spend months or years with the tribe - when they returned home, they often dictated or wrote accounts of their experiences. There were also traders who interacted with these tribes.

 

[tk421991]

Here's some ideas and traditions for Pequot (PEQ), assuming Paradox does not add in the Narragansett and Wampanoag...

Ideas:

1. "Bountiful Ocean", I'm thinking either reduced development cost or increased production efficiency: living along the Atlantic seaboard allows us to fish for cod and other fish, in addition to being able to collect shellfish like the quahog.

2. "Dugout canoes and 'the Great River'", either increased land leader maneuver or reduced envoy speed: our canoes and the many rivers of Connecticut allow us to travel quickly and efficiently.

3. "Sachems", reduced stability cost or increased legitimacy: unlike the matrilineal Iroquois and Lenape, we have a system of male sachems and sub-sachems to guide our people in war and peace.

4. "Tobacco Valley", increased trade efficiency or domestic trade power: soon after making contact with the English, tobacco was introduced to our lands. This crop is profitable and suited to our river valleys.

5. "Dutch Connections", reduced development cost or reduced technology cost: The Dutch have established trading posts at the House of Hope and in New Amsterdam. We should use this connection to our advantage.

6. "Determination", increased tax revenue (if it's increased tax revenue, it's sort of a joke/Easter Egg about Foxwoods Casino): We may have had to leave our ancestral lands, but we will not give up - we shall remain and endure.

7. "Merger with the Mohegan", increased land force limit: After the Pequot War, the Mashantucket Pequot became part of the Mohegan tribe and remain in Connecticut to the present day.

Traditions:

1. "Recovering from Diseases", manpower increase: we must pull together the survivors of the diseases brought by the Europeans in order to survive (in reality, diseases had the opposite effect and fractured the Pequot).

2. "Simeon Simons", increased infantry combat ability: although not a Pequot, Simeon Simons was a Native American from Connecticut who served as a bodyguard to George Washington (note: the Pequot were generally regarded as a threat/good warriors before the Pequot War).

Ambition: "Window to the East", increased naval force limit or decreased shipbuilding time: this one is sort of tricky since the Pequot as an independent tribe were killed off/enslaved/subjugated pretty early in the timeline of British Colonial America. British Colonial Connecticut was a shipbuilding and trading powerhouse before and after the Revolution, so it isn't implausible to imagine the Pequot attempting privateering or shipbuilding if they survived, maintained their land and embraced European technology.

There's also a slight problem with the Pequot in EUIV... The flag used for the Pequot is the Mashantucket Pequot flag (and also the logo of Foxwoods Casino). These people are technically the descendants of Pequot who were subjugated by the Mohegan after the Pequot War, but the Mohegan don't exist in EU. That being said, I have no idea what the independent Pequot used for an insignia or flag and these days, the Mashantucket reservation is about 10 miles away from the Mohegan reservation... They both exist(ed) in what is EU's Connecticut province/county.

Let me know what you all think - I'd like to get some feedback before I take a whack at the Abenaki and the Mahican. Here's what I found from the comfort of my couch for sources. I'd be happy to visit a library or the Connecticut or Mashantucket archives for more info, but I'd like to get a little guidance/direction from others first.

https://www.mptn-nsn.gov/tribalhistory.aspx

http://www.pequotmuseum.org/uploade...Resources/mpmrc_history_and_culture_ebook.pdf

http://colonialwarsct.org/1637.htm

https://connecticuthistory.org/windsor-tobacco-made-in-the-shade/

https://connecticuthistory.org/reckoning-with-the-dutch-the-treaty-of-hartford-1650/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Simons

I think the Pequot should specialize in having a strong economy and army. Connecticut, up until recently, was an economic powerhouse and played a heavy role in the American Revolution. It produced food, ships, recruited troops and became heavily industrialized going into the 19th Century, since it was next to Rhode Island and Massachusetts, where the Industrial Revolution began.