Nuclear Attacks

[vimhawk]

Getting towards the end of 1945 as Germany and just been nuked for the fourth time which just happened to sink most of my navy.

Annoying because a navy takes a long time to build but actually because the nuke is a real game breaker not because of the damage it does, but because of the 25% dissent I got from the first strike.

For all the options in setup that are provided with the game, the option to "remove nuclear" should have been one of them. Regardless of how historic you might think this is, I think it's equally logical to argue that either the first nuke wouldn't cause that much dissent OR there would have been rather more political pressure to stop the Americans dropping four nukes on Europe OR one of my CAP or my (frankly absolutely gigantic) AA might have shot it down. One of the nukes landed on Rome - how likely is that? I have no idea if they nuked Japan first as I'm not allied, but it would seem a more likely destination for the bomb.

But regardless of the historical debate, it completely ruins the game. And I'm playing this to have fun - and to put so many hours into a game and then get to the stage where it's unplayable is really annoying. Yes of course you could say that if Germany hadn't won by 1945 they were always going to lose, but then what's the point of playing Germany? It all seems to me like I'm forced to play one way, the way of maximising every move, every build (which in itself is completely unhistoric!) in order to beat the US before they can nuke me. Unless someone knows a way of stopping the US nuclear programme without invading them?

Anyway this may have been the final nail in the Iron Cross coffin for me. I've put up with the many problems (many of which are posted here) but I think I've had enough of it now. I don't have a lot of time to myself for playing these games any more so that when I get some time I need a bit more reward than this (and I don't mean just winning all the time, but having the chance of winning).

 

[Conanteacher]

For all the options in setup that are provided with the game, the option to "remove nuclear" should have been one of them.

Definately agree with that !!

But regardless of the historical debate, it completely ruins the game.

Well, yes, one cannot play till 1964 when the US produce 1 nuke a month after '48 or so. No chance.

It all seems to me like I'm forced to play one way, the way of maximising every move, every build (which in itself is completely unhistoric!) in order to beat the US before they can nuke me. Unless someone knows a way of stopping the US nuclear programme without invading them?

No doubt, yes. I hate it. Even as Germany or USSR it becomes unrealistic.

Anyway this may have been the final nail in the Iron Cross coffin for me.

Oh come on, let us not exaggerate now!

Suggestions=
1) Tone down the effects of nukes
2) Slow down the Nuke production.
3) Make it possible for other nations to get nukes before the 1950's:
UK, USSR, France, Germany have to sacrifice too much of their other research projects to do so.
Let's take down the lvl 20 tech fields to let's say lvl 12-14?
And let the US not prioritize them so much so that they don't get them by 1942 or so.

 

[vimhawk]

Good suggestions, but are you saying this is something that can be player modified (US prioritisation etc), or is this inbuilt into the AI of the game?

 

[DrBob]

I don't care for the dissent hit you take from getting nuked, but it is toned down from Arm. Can we mod the dissent hit? I'm not sure.

I played a couple of times and the second time i had to invest in interceptors and keep a fighter screen across Germany. I was never nuked, only Milan was. i ended the game in 1947.

So you to can prevent forest fires, oh, i mean, getting nuked.


Cheers!!
vimhawk, are you playing with DB's AI mod? If so, i will look into modding the dissent hit for nukes.

 

[vimhawk]

I don't care for the dissent hit you take from getting nuked, but it is toned down from Arm. Can we mod the dissent hit? I'm not sure.

I played a couple of times and the second time i had to invest in interceptors and keep a fighter screen across Germany. I was never nuked, only Milan was. i ended the game in 1947.

So you to can prevent forest fires, oh, i mean, getting nuked.


Cheers!!
vimhawk, are you playing with DB's AI mod? If so, i will look into modding the dissent hit for nukes.

Hello

I'm not playing at the moment because I was fed up with being nuked. May sound like bad looser but each to his own.

I have downloaded your mod (thank you, much appreciated) and was going to install it mainly for the game I was playing the Sovs and got that ludicrous Great Patriotic War event - if I installed it now would it kill the games that were saved before the mod?

The other question is how to change the nukes. Can you advise me where to go? I would ideally like to make them more expensive rather than delete completely. I would also ideally like to tone down dissent hit as I said ... but to start with my personal preference is to up the expense and/or research time. I would be extremely grateful if you could advise how.

 

[Conanteacher]

Good suggestions, but are you saying this is something that can be player modified (US prioritisation etc), or is this inbuilt into the AI of the game?

Well I don't know, I think it's a bit complicated for a player to modify.
Anyway the "No Nukes" box should be tickable at the setup menu.

 

[stevetry]

if you got nuke them you lost is unrealistic to try to continue

 

[vimhawk]

Well I don't know, I think it's a bit complicated for a player to modify.
Anyway the "No Nukes" box should be tickable at the setup menu.

Thanks for the reply - but what about making nuclear research more expensive? Can that be modified by the player?

 

[Conanteacher]

Then only the US will have nukes - ok, not by '45, but by '48 or so. Also unrealistic.
Should just tone down the effects a bit - and slow the production rate. The US had less than 10 warheads by 1950, or am I wrong?

 

[coregonas]

Perhaps a country launching a nuclear attack should get increasing dissent penalties himself, increasing every new hit.

The nuked country loses troops, industry, manpower, and so... and the dissent hit.

The attacker should lose no dissent for the 1st hit, 2 dissent for the second, 4 for the third... and so on. In the end, it should lose a lot of dissent himself.

 

[vimhawk]

Then only the US will have nukes - ok, not by '45, but by '48 or so. Also unrealistic.
Should just tone down the effects a bit - and slow the production rate. The US had less than 10 warheads by 1950, or am I wrong?

Point taken, but I would argue not much more unrealistic than the current way nukes are implemented, so I'd still like to know either (1) how to make them more expensive or (2) how to extend the research time.

It seems ridiculous that the game effectively has an inbuilt end date / time limit based on when the US can nuke Germany (I'm sure the same goes if you're playing the Soviets or anyone else against the US). Surely once you've been nuked the game is more or less unplayable given its more or less impossible to function with 25% dissent (plus the potential IC you use to try and reduce the dissent), plus more dissent based on how often more nukes fall. So regardless of how long you can potentially play the game for, you seem to have to defeat the US before they can develop nukes. What's the point in that? Since they can start nuking you in 1944 it kind of plays into the hands of those players who come on here saying "I played Andorra and have achieved world domination by 1940. Why is the AI so crap." Well if I want to play it my way I'd like to have some chance of doing so - isn't that part of the fun of buying a game which is kind of a sandbox of history as opposed to one where you have only one path?

 

[serutan]

I believe it is possible to get rid of nukes by modding the tech files so that none of the nuclear reactor levels are enabled,
and so can't be built.

 

[Conanteacher]

...and then complain that US AI sucks, because it is researching Atomic Disintegration from 1938 to 1946 and therefore has been left behind in every technology...?

 

[serutan]

...and then complain that US AI sucks, because it is researching Atomic Disintegration from 1938 to 1946 and therefore has been left behind in every technology...?

Nope. Just make them so cheap it doesn't matter.