Others too weak?

[ParrotGuy]

I've read in various threads in the internet that the Others are a huge threat, and that if they take the Wall and some parts of the North they become a huge force and get event troops... But I never saw it happen. Even in the rare case they take The Wall and some tracts of the North, They eventually get crashed by whoever unified the Iron Throne or even by The North. I tried some things like switching to play as them, and their armies are really small and number by the thousands... Is it intentional?

 

[blackninja9939]

They get more troops the more they conquer as they have 100% levy from their provinces. So they need more and more land as the land beyond the wall really has little troops ie low population so less people to have as wights. If you notice them and attack them before they have taken a lot of territory then they will be relatively easy to defeat if you are a untied Iron Throne, it is only once they take a decent chunk of the North will they start becoming more dangerous even to large untied empires.

 

[TMSaxon]

I get the impression from the books though that they are a massive threat even just having the lands beyond the Wall. So it seems odd that they are so weak - they are causing a massive exodus for example, but a King Beyond the Wall can in theory defeat them on his own.

 

[ParrotGuy]

They get more troops the more they conquer as they have 100% levy from their provinces. So they need more and more land as the land beyond the wall really has little troops ie low population so less people to have as wights. If you notice them and attack them before they have taken a lot of territory then they will be relatively easy to defeat if you are a untied Iron Throne, it is only once they take a decent chunk of the North will they start becoming more dangerous even to large untied empires.

Hm, I see. But I made a little experiment (was trying a game as Lord Redwyne to be the 'among the last surviving Westerosi lords in an apocalypse setting'), and switched to the Others from time to time via console to help the AI be a little less dumb, and there's always some point where Westeros unites and even through the Others took Winterfell and huge chunks of the North (including White Harbour) they still couldn't win... Don't they get event troops or only 'levies' from lands they overrun?

 

[blackninja9939]

IIRC they get some starting event troops but everything else is just from their 100% levies

 

[ParrotGuy]

IIRC they get some starting event troops but everything else is just from their 100% levies

Ok, thanks! I'll try to get them to take over as much of the North as possible to make them an overwhelming threat.

 

[ParrotGuy]

IIRC they get some starting event troops but everything else is just from their 100% levies

I tried a test game as the Others (using console commands to cause winter wastelands to be created etc), and I still think they are way, way too weak. I conquered the whole North and all it netted me is 20K in levies. A unified Iron Throne easily destroyed me. Most of the population of the North and beyond the Wall should be much more than 20K... Perhaps give the Others large amounts proportional event troops whenever they conquer lands, or give them a law like The Night's Watch has, making their wasteland "vassals" and the baron level vassals give them all they have? Right now, in this version, they don't come near to representing the magnitude of the threat they pose and I think that's pretty much the biggest problem I have with this great mod.

 

[blackninja9939]

We get this complaint all the time either they are too strong or not strong enough, which makes me think they are decently balanced then. I've seen many screenshots of them owning all of Westeros and other screenshots of them getting beaten back in the initial war.
They only really shine when they attack and the realm is splintered by war like during AFFC. A unified IT can quite easily destroy them and this is partly intended as if they were a complete rofl stomp then it would be no fun. We do not want you to see them own maybe half the North and be like oh well game over may as well start a new save, they have to be slightly weaker than they would be in the books/show so as to make playing against them still somewhat enjoyable.

 

[DorlasAnther]

Problem is that they are extremely slow. Wars for IT could last 10 years and Others may not even come to attack the North, because of how slow CK2 wars are. I think that those "they are too strong" complaints come from people playing as NW or someone in the North, or just those who had bad luck. They have yet to win in my games, and I played AFFC quite a lot.
And besides that, they should be a huge threat. If you start in AFFC scenario, they should have big chance of conquering Westeros.

 

[P5166661]

Another problem I'm having is that people are coming from the other side of the planet - Literally, there are people coming from Asshai responding to the NW call to arms. Seems a little excessive, don't know if it's intended though. And it makes it damn near impossible for the Others to win or become a real threat when almost the entire worls of Ice and Fire is united against them.

 

[Arcvalons]

They should in fact be nearly unstoppable unless you have acess to dragons, or a lot of obsidian/ valyrian steel somehow, and men killed by them should join their ranks.They should always be the greatest threat a player will face.

 

[blackninja9939]

They should in fact be nearly unstoppable unless you have acess to dragons, or a lot of obsidian/ valyrian steel somehow, and men killed by them should join their ranks.They should always be the greatest threat a player will face.

Yes but then that wouldn't be fun though would it, if you did not have a dragon then you would be completely destroyed every single time which would just get to the point where if you see the white walkers start there invasion then you may as well stop.

 

[P5166661]

Maybe add a call to arms event for holders of valyrian steel to come fight against the white walkers?

Could work something like the valyrian steel sword quest, where they get the 'On a journey' modifier and get combat events about fighting white walkers. Just a general idea, but I think it could be something cool if done properly.

 

[monsterfurby]

Optimally, maybe they should be brutal, but should not outright wipe players or come in waves (i.e. several winters needed to take Westeros). Short of dragons, aye, nothing will stop the Others. However, we've also seen some Wildlings (Craster, for one) survive in their immediate vicinity solely by appeasing them and not getting in their way. There should always be wiggling room for a player to not be helplessly roflstomped by circumstances beyond their control as that, I agree, wouldn't be very fun. However, if players could opt to keep some of their possessions, dig in, and try and fly under the Others' radar while the wave washes over them (possibly with events to acquire Dragonglass), that might salvage the gameplay experience of facing stronger Others.

However, I really don't have the modding experience to really tell how one would implement that, in game terms.

 

[1st Citizen]

Maybe it could be an check box in the installer, make them an Apocalyptic threat or balance them for gameplay.

 

[Zwag]

anyone knows the file(s) that edit their troop strength/number when spawn?

 

[karmaepsilon]

They used to be super brutal in this submod but yeah lately they've been less of a problem

 

[Yuiiut]

You do have to take into account that they do absolutely level families to the ground because of the whirring snowball of pointy death they become in battlefield duels. It's all very well and good to not lose, but wiping out my family down to a 50 year old widow and some imbecile of a twice-removed cousin is also it's own special form of victory, in terms of challenge to the player. I never come out of the war for the dawn feeling it was anything less than hard-fought, and more often than not it's a pyrrhic victory.

 

[das]

I have never seen them do at all well. Never.

Is there some easy way to give them more troops when they first show up? I really feel it'd be a lot more fun if they were a serious threat from the start, not just if somehow all the stars align just right and they are able to take over half of Westeros without anyone putting up a propr fight.

 

[SBerger]

The Others need a buff in YiTi a little. I witnessed the Others invade on several occasions within a matter of a year I believe. Every time they invade with an army of 0, giving YiTi an automatic 100%.