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Diefledermas

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wAARmonger House Rules
Amended 5/28

NOTE - some of you may think this sounds like a lot of rules. Most of us play together regularly so they become second nature. They exist to standardize our opinions on "realistic gameplay" and prevent the "gamey" newbie from exploiting our only "real" rule - play within the spirit of the game.

1. STACK LIMITS

A: Air Flotillas & Navies may NOT have more than the leader's MAX division limit (i.e. Lt. General may have 3 divisions, etc..). Grand Admirals/Air Marshalls are limited to 12 divisions (i.e. the x2 modifier is moot)

B: If you wish to "stack" more than one navy/flotilla in the same sea zone or province, that's fine.

C: NONE of these restictions apply to land units (the game mechanics provide harsh enough penalties for land overstacking).

2. TECH SHARING

A: NO tech sharing among OR to the "Big 5". The Big 5 are USA, USSR, UK, Germany, and Japan.

B: Unlimited (frequency) tech sharing to any other nations (*).

C: Doctrines AND Gold Techs may NEVER be shared.

* = the Foriegn Minister Ideological Crusader creates a problem with this rule since he uses 0 diplomatic points. Solution to this is under debate

3. PARATROOPERS

NOTE: This issue has seen some intense debate between the pro-paras (me & Big) and the anti-paras (Brindle & AJJ)

A: Limit to three (3) active paratrooper units. Additional divisions may be in "reserve" somewhere in your homeland but may not be used until the active 3 are withdrawn and/or destroyed.

B: Paratroopers MAY NOT land on STAR Provinces OR Capitals (note: VP provinces w/o stars are fair game)

C: Paratroopers MAY NOT "move" once the have landed until they are linked up with a friendly province (think a Bridge Too Far).

D: Paratroopers MAY NOT be picked up air transports from the "hot" LZ (i.e. behind enemy lines)

4. AMPHIBIOUS ASSUALTS & COASTAL UNLOADING

A. Troops may only be unloaded from transports onto Beach OR Port provinces. (this rule was implemented to avoid paradropping into non-beach coastal provinces and then off loading troops there from sea. It also eliminates the EXPLOIT of making your troops exp. forces to an AI country and ignoring beaches)

5. SUPPLY SLIDER ON THE RESOURCE SCREEN

A. You cannot let your supplies drop to 0. You may set the slider to zero as long as you HAVE supplies. I.E. You must always have supplies for your troops.

B. EXCEPTION - If you are engaged in a war and your supplies drop to 0, this is not a violation.

6. SUPPLYING TROOPS OF A FOREIGN WAR WHILE NEUTRAL

A. You cannot send supplies to Foreign War while not an active combatant. NOTE: This is because your convoys CANNOT be targeted and create an invincible supply line

7. MILITARY CONTROL & EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

A. If you take Military Control of an AI Allied nation you CANNOT use their troops at the expense of the host nation's security (example - Greece takes control of Australia and moves the entire ANZAC to Athens to attack a neutral Turkety)

B. You CANNOT send YOUR troops as expeditionary forces to an AI Nation to force them to pay the supply costs of the units. (This doesn't mean you can't send exp. forces to AI allies - but sending your navy to South Africa during peacetime is)

8.NEW UNIT DEPLOYMENT

A. You must "deploy" newly constructed divisions immediately. No "holding" new units in the strategic screen. NOTE: If you want to move deployed units to the Strategic Deployment screen, that's fine.

9.USA SENDING SUPPLIES

A. The USA cannot send SUPPLIES while Neutral to another country.

B. EXCEPTION - This USA may send supplies to Nationalist China once Japan (or Russia) DoW's China. If China joins the Commintern or the Axis this exception is moot. This exception also supercedes all other rules.

10. ALLIANCES - ASKED TO LEAVE

A. If the UK, USSR, or Germany requests you leave their alliance, you must do so. EXCEPTION - France.

11. GHOST ARMIES

A. You cannot use 0 Division Armies (created by LAG) to take unoccupied territory.

12 "GAMEY" ACTIONS THAT AREN'T BANNED BUT FROWNED UPON"

A. Russia DoWing Democracies pre-war and setting off war between Axis AND Allies

B. China joining the Allies pre-Japanese/Russian attack

C. Japan joining the Axis and having Germany/Italy DoW China for them (i.e. pre-elections).

D. influencing Nations into the Fascist sphere to avoid raising Allied WE.

E. Using an Allied Nationalist China as a "free pass" to DoW countries.

If I forgot anything wAARmongers, add it on
 
Of course you are free to use any house rules you see fit... My view is that these should be kept to a minimum and easily implemented... My comments/questions

1. STACK LIMITS

A: Air Flotillas & Navies may NOT have more than the leader's MAX division limit (i.e. Lt. General may have 3 divisions, etc..). Grand Admirals/Air Marshalls are limited to 12 divisions (i.e. the x2 modifier is moot)
*** does this not increase micro management ? If I understand correctly you may still stack unlimited amounts but instead of having one big stack you have an umlimited number of smaller ones .... So what is the benefit ? *******

B: If you wish to "stack" more than one navy/flotilla in the same sea zone or province, that's fine.

C: NONE of these restictions apply to land units (the game mechanics provide harsh enough penalties for land overstacking).

2. TECH SHARING

A: NO tech sharing among OR to the "Big 5". The Big 5 are USA, USSR, UK, Germany, and Japan.

**** Italy must have a field day :) receiving tech *****

B: Unlimited (frequency) tech sharing to any other nations (*).

C: Doctrines AND Gold Techs may NEVER be shared.

* = the Foriegn Minister Ideological Crusader creates a problem with this rule since he uses 0 diplomatic points. Solution to this is under debate

3. PARATROOPERS

NOTE: This issue has seen some intense debate between the pro-paras (me & Big) and the anti-paras (Brindle & AJJ)

A: Limit to three (3) active paratrooper units. Additional divisions may be in "reserve" somewhere in your homeland but may not be used until the active 3 are withdrawn and/or destroyed.

***** active meaning what in this case then ? outside home country ? *******

B: Paratroopers MAY NOT land on STAR Provinces OR Capitals (note: VP provinces w/o stars are fair game)

C: Paratroopers MAY NOT "move" once the have landed until they are linked up with a friendly province (think a Bridge Too Far).

D: Paratroopers MAY NOT be picked up air transports from the "hot" LZ (i.e. behind enemy lines)

4. AMPHIBIOUS ASSUALTS & COASTAL UNLOADING

A. Troops may only be unloaded from transports onto Beach OR Port provinces. (this rule was implemented to avoid paradropping into non-beach coastal provinces and then off loading troops there from sea. It also eliminates the EXPLOIT of making your troops exp. forces to an AI country and ignoring beaches)

5. SUPPLY SLIDER ON THE RESOURCE SCREEN

A. You cannot let your supplies drop to 0. You may set the slider to zero as long as you HAVE supplies. I.E. You must always have supplies for your troops.

B. EXCEPTION - If you are engaged in a war and your supplies drop to 0, this is not a violation.

6. SUPPLYING TROOPS OF A FOREIGN WAR WHILE NEUTRAL

A. You cannot send supplies to Foreign War while not an active combatant. NOTE: This is because your convoys CANNOT be targeted and create an invincible supply line

**** hmmm .... was not the US supplying UK before being at war ? and many other examples *******

7. MILITARY CONTROL & EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

A. If you take Military Control of an AI Allied nation you CANNOT use their troops at the expense of the host nation's security (example - Greece takes control of Australia and moves the entire ANZAC to Athens to attack a neutral Turkety)

*** that is difficult to enforce... maybe you want to make it simpler and state something like "at least 40 percent (or whatever number is relevant) of the AI nation forces must remain in their home country at all times"

B. You CANNOT send YOUR troops as expeditionary forces to an AI Nation to force them to pay the supply costs of the units. (This doesn't mean you can't send exp. forces to AI allies - but sending your navy to South Africa during peacetime is)

8.NEW UNIT DEPLOYMENT

A. You must "deploy" newly constructed divisions immediately. No "holding" new units in the strategic screen. NOTE: If you want to move deployed units to the Strategic Deployment screen, that's fine.

9.USA SENDING SUPPLIES

A. The USA cannot send SUPPLIES while Neutral to another country.

B. EXCEPTION - This USA may send supplies to Nationalist China once Japan (or Russia) DoW's China. If China joins the Commintern or the Axis this exception is moot. This exception also supercedes all other rules.

10. ALLIANCES - ASKED TO LEAVE

A. If the UK, USSR, or Germany requests you leave their alliance, you must do so. EXCEPTION - France.
** has this ever happened ? what was the reason ?*****

11. GHOST ARMIES

A. You cannot use 0 Division Armies (created by LAG) to take unoccupied territory.

12 "GAMEY" ACTIONS THAT AREN'T BANNED BUT FROWNED UPON"

A. Russia DoWing Democracies pre-war and setting off war between Axis AND Allies

**** this should really be banned as it is a bug ... why dont u ban it ? ******

B. China joining the Allies pre-Japanese/Russian attack

C. Japan joining the Axis and having Germany/Italy DoW China for them (i.e. pre-elections).

***** what if no elections in 37 ? *****

D. influencing Nations into the Fascist sphere to avoid raising Allied WE.

E. Using an Allied Nationalist China as a "free pass" to DoW countries.

*** what about "strange alliances" ... like Jap joining allies or US joining axis ? *****
 
does this not increase micro management ? If I understand correctly you may still stack unlimited amounts but instead of having one big stack you have an umlimited number of smaller ones .... So what is the benefit ?

Massed navies are too powerful AND massed air forces have the same issue. The "micro-management" you note is SUPPOSED to discourage "super-stacks" while still allowing large concentrations (example: D-Day or basing all your attack aircraft on the Eastern Front at a certain airfield)

Italy must have a field day receiving tech

Italy, France, and China (the usual human picks) are eligible. With the lower DI aquisition in 1.04 tech sharing is no longer such a given. PLUS, If (say Germany to use your example) is busy trying to swing Romania into the Axis, he may not be so keen on using all his Dip points to flush Italy with tech. The no golds also prevents "exploitive" sharing (and no doctrines means you still have to research the really expensive ones). And I noted the Ideological Crusader enigma

active meaning what in this case then ? outside home country ?

Active = not in the field (i.e. being dropped or occupying provinces that are behind enemy lines, I think we all know what that means)

hmmm .... was not the US supplying UK before being at war ? and many other examples

This a very old debate that had its own thread and about 200 replies to it. This is the compromise solution our group determined was the best balance. Yes the UK was supplied by the USA BUT the Germans can't go sinking US convoys without declaring war and the US support pre-war was very limited.

that is difficult to enforce... maybe you want to make it simpler and state something like "at least 40 percent (or whatever number is relevant) of the AI nation forces must remain in their home country at all times"

It's not difficult to enforce when you have a regular group. As for "pick-up" games, I gave up trying to institute rules for them a long time ago

has this ever happened ? what was the reason?

Yes (actually I've seen it happen a lot), the reason? Typical "I want to play a minor and pretend this is EU2 not HOI" player

this should really be banned as it is a bug ... why dont u ban it ?

Hasn't been ratified by the others. Our usual USSR player(s) tend not to attack democracies early so it hasn't been a problem.

what if no elections in 37 ?

Japan will (eventually) have an election.

what about "strange alliances" ... like Jap joining allies or US joining axis ?

We have no problems with "strange" alliances. The point of this pseudo-ban is using non-democracies to DoW for democracies. We implement the "theatre" rule - China could (realistically) DoW Sinkaing or Japan but would not DoW Spain (NOTE: Portugal is a REAL gamey exception which we all no is a BS in-theatre country near China). As for the US joing the Axis, I've seen it happen but FDR hated Fascists so if you do it you're ignoring any aspect of historic "alternate possiblities"
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas



This a very old debate that had its own thread and about 200 replies to it. This is the compromise solution our group determined was the best balance. Yes the UK was supplied by the USA BUT the Germans can't go sinking US convoys without declaring war and the US support pre-war was very limited.




Actually, I was under the impression that our rule was 'no sending supplies to a country if the recipient is at peace'. This addresses the problems we had and still allows historical 'lend-lease' supply transfer, as UK and USSR didn't receive it IRL until after they were at war.
 
Actually, I was under the impression that our rule was 'no sending supplies to a country if the recipient is at peace'.

It might be. I was trying to remember the specifics of all of them.
 
rules

i was still using just one tech share a month rule. i like that and limits the ability of the 0 DI minister from going nutz. I never knew we took away the 1 per month. just that we completely took away the sharing to big-5. Darn, and i have the 0 DI minister installed in our current game ;(


Brindle
 
You have an interesting set of rules. In my clan many of the same things are in question. Paratroops for instance has just become a major debate between myself and DeathTrapX. I know how you feel when it comes to trying to lay down a set of rules. But thanks for some good ideas. (In fact I think we have stolen your rules for no gold or doctrine tech sharing already):D
 
Just curious Alfas. In your clan does everybody switch nations often? Or do you all more or less stick with a favorite country? Us wAARmongers usually shuffle (except for stubborn Japan:D), and this gives a good view of both sides of the story usually. Sometimes we spend 30 min or more in IP discussing a rule proposal.
 
I never knew we took away the 1 per month.

We should probably re-institute it. OR limit 1 share per month to a given country (I have Ideological Crusader myself and have been self limiting to one a month myself)
 
We shuffle countries a bit but most of us have a few favorites that we keep coming back to. I myself have always like the neutral countries (Soviet Union, USA and to a lesser extant Italy and Japan). About that stubborn Japan player let me guess. Is it Ajj?:D
 
About that stubborn Japan player let me guess. Is it Ajj?

I guess his tick-like hold on Japan is famous. Or should I say INfamous... ;)
 
Interesting set of rules. I just don't like the one that you have to deploy your troops right after they are buid. I like to surprise the people with hidden troops. The Japs not able to DOW with Germany help I don't like much but you can live with that. The China not joining the alliance before war I don't really get. The other rules seem good.
 
Originally posted by varak
Actually, I was under the impression that our rule was 'no sending supplies to a country if the recipient is at peace'. This addresses the problems we had and still allows historical 'lend-lease' supply transfer, as UK and USSR didn't receive it IRL until after they were at war.
I think this issue was originally brought up in regards to beachheads. I think a nuetral Italy was invading USSR through the Black Sea, and Germany (not at war) was sending convoys of supplies to the beachhead. USSR had the coast blockaded, but it didn't matter because they could not touch the German convoys.
 
Originally posted by Thorrek
I just don't like the one that you have to deploy your troops right after they are buid. I like to surprise the people with hidden troops.
The issue was in regards to supply. A country can get a huge advantage in supply by keeping all of their built units in the force pool, which goes against the spirit of the supply rules. You can still keep a large portion (10% maybe?) of your army in the strategic redeployment pool for surprise purposes.
The Japs not able to DOW with Germany help I don't like much but you can live with that. The China not joining the alliance before war I don't really get.
Those aren't rules, but things thave have been discussed as possibly being gamey. They are more or less compromises to each other. There was discussion that Japan could not put up a good fight against the USA without Chinese IC's, and Japan can't afford to go war against the Allies for a year or two on its own. So if they can't join the Allies right away, at least they can have a year or two to build up.
 
Levels of Supply COnsumption

There should be three different levels of supply consumption:

1) Full rate for wartime
2) Half rate or lower for peacetime
3) lesser rate for units in the force pool.

They could also make units built but held in the force pool "lose" strength after three months, so that if you hold them there for a while, they would be deployed at less than full strength, having then to be reinforced. Minimum should be 25% strength. This reflects cadre units that are commissioned but not filled out to full strength.

While all units should consume supplies, supply consumption at peacetime should not be the same as at war.

I think these measures will resolve most of the issues surrounding keeping units in the force pool. Perhaps intelligence techs could also give opponents a fuzzy look at your force pool. There should be some legitimate way to obscure the enemy's knowledge of what your strength is.
 
I agree Thorrek, that's my whole problem with hidden units, the supply. Although, it does seem a little farfetched to be able to completely hide a lot of divisions.

Thorrek, out of curiousity:

A) What do you hide? A bit of everything, or a reserve force?

B) How much do you hide?

C) Have you ever been caught unprepared using this tactic?

I used a similar, but different kind of surprise in a recent game. As Germany, after the conquest of Poland, I built forts with small (3 div) garrisons on the border with Russia. I then kept the rest of the garrison units (the other 9) one province back, out of sight. I also staged my spearhead forces one prov back from the border.
It must have worked, since USSR DOW'ed me and began a front-wide assault on my weak-looking positions.

Imagine his surprise when 50 extra divs show up on the line a few hours before his arrival:D and the spearhead rolls through one of his attacking forces.
 
Re: Levels of Supply COnsumption

Originally posted by fpolli
1) Full rate for wartime
2) Half rate or lower for peacetime
3) lesser rate for units in the force pool.
I like your third idea, I think that would resolve a lot of problems. However, I think the increased supply costs during wartime are simulated by having to reinforce divisions. The supply costs of reinforcing can be enormous.
 
I disagree, Bigglesworth

I think the supply cost of reinforcing reflects the replacement of lost material and machinery. That's why it costs so much more to reinforce tanks and planes. During peacetime you are not firing off ammunition at prodigious rates, and your units are just less active. No way should a military use supplies at the same rate in peacetime that it does in warfare.