Papal approval

[unmerged(485)]

When your next of kin inherit your lands will they need to get the approval (investiture) from their nominal overlord?

Since we will be playing sovereign dynasties it seems like a strange question. However, the HRE was crowned by the Pope and kingships were politically stronger when the Pope (or anti-Pope) gave his approval of the accession of a new king.

 

[Winkelried]

Originally posted by Sonny
When your next of kin inherit your lands will they need to get the approval (investiture) from their nominal overlord?

I don't think so. AFAIK fiefs (sp?) were treated pretty much like property of a dynasty even if they were only "lended".

Since we will be playing sovereign dynasties it seems like a strange question. However, the HRE was crowned by the Pope and kingships were politically stronger when the Pope (or anti-Pope) gave his approval of the accession of a new king.

The pope would give approval through coronation to emperor. I don't think he could turn down a legitimately elected king.

 

[unmerged(1057)]

Originally posted by Sonny
However, the HRE was crowned by the Pope and kingships were politically stronger when the Pope (or anti-Pope) gave his approval of the accession of a new king.

I think that this meant that The Pope was politically stronger...

 

[Idiotboy]

Re: Re: Papal approval

Originally posted by Winkelried


The pope would give approval through coronation to emperor. I don't think he could turn down a legitimately elected king.

Well he could make it extremely uncomfortable for him but it would probably just hurt himself in the long run. I wonder if there can be some kind of atrocity factor. Do too much of them and be excommunicated.

 

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How making Papal approvation based on the relation? I mean that if Pope like that strong and smart man then he will crown him. Also, depend on piety points? There should be a benefit to this. Maybe, the crowned person get the increasion of the power, get piety point, better relation, higher tax income. However also, the crowned should be more restrained in his options. After all, if you ignore thej Crusade or attack the land that have ruler go off to Crusade.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Re: Re: Papal approval

Originally posted by Wasa


I think that this meant that The Pope was politically stronger...

Not necessarily. He may crown an Emperor because he needs him for protection against an anti-pope or dissatisfied Romans.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Also, towards the middle-to-end of CK's time frame the Pope had less and less direct power in the German minors and their star (and the HRE's) was on the rise (leading eventually to the Golden Bull...)

The greatest hammer for the Pope to hold over their heads would have been interdict, and I very seriously doubt that the Popes would interfere with just (legitimate) succession, no matter how little he liked the crown prince or how much he prefered a lesser alternate. He'd be far more likely to look to another country who was sympathetic to his desires and manipulate them to act on his behalf.

Just a thought.

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by MrT
Also, towards the middle-to-end of CK's time frame the Pope had less and less direct power in the German minors and their star (and the HRE's) was on the rise (leading eventually to the Golden Bull...)

The greatest hammer for the Pope to hold over their heads would have been interdict, and I very seriously doubt that the Popes would interfere with just (legitimate) succession, no matter how little he liked the crown prince or how much he prefered a lesser alternate. He'd be far more likely to look to another country who was sympathetic to his desires and manipulate them to act on his behalf.

Just a thought.

Yeah, I think that you are right the pope would manipulate other countries to do what he wanted done, and not directly be linked to...

the usual Machiavellian sneaking-about italian policy....