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Magean

Lt. General
56 Badges
Jan 26, 2008
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So, EU4 has been announced and Paradox said (Strategy Informer interview) that they'll focus more on historical material. Thus, EU4 will feature thousands of historical events and monarchs...

How does the Old Guard feel ? Do you think the sandbox era is coming to an end ?
 
Not actually sure if I understood correctly, but if you're asking whether we'll still play old games - obviously ;) Old EU2/FtG, so much memorable moments/games/mods/fun/jesus/etc. , obviously won't leave that yo. Both simple and amusing stuff. And quite moddable, especially FtG.

The other side of coin (in my case) is that my PC can't handle even EU3 without addons (damn you graphic card!), so...yes. :rofl:

Thus, EU4 will feature thousands of historical events and monarchs...

And I'm sure that modders will have to correct dozens of mistakes again, and also add even more events and stuff to make it real historical. It doesn't really matter then ;) But after all EU IV seems to be hell of a fun - hope that I'd have a chance to play it...
 
I fail to understand the question really, but thanks for notifying those of us who don't visit other fora than those they subscribed to - I entirely missed the announcement for example, despite checking the fora quite regularly... ;)
 
I fail to understand the question really

The question was, what do you think since apparently Paradox returned to a more historical and deterministic game philosophy (I guess the EU2/FtG veterans who still play FtG or EU2 rather than EU3 often do it because they like historicity rather than sandbox).
 
The historical monarchs and leaders had already been advertised in EUIII, they just meant that you could start at any given date with your historical ruler and military commanders. Reading the devs' posts so far, that does not seem to have changed. So, with random monarchs, I fail to see how anyone could create a mod following the AGCEEP philosophy. There may be history-inspired events but there is no way you could have historical events without historical monarchs.

I look forward to be proven wrong, though. :mellow:
 
Nononono. They will keep clean of historical railroad, this they already told. They aim for a more historically plausible AI, though - with more "generalized" events à la revolution? Could be.
 
For some reason I can't get my head past the "3D" maps which are apparently now the norm in such games. I just don't see what they add to the gaming experience and frankly I think a top down view is much easier to see what needs to be seen. For that reason I'll probably, perhaps unreasonably, not be investing in EUIV.
 
When EU 3 came out, the argument was that 3D was necessary to stay competitive. If they stayed 2D, there would be no way to compete with games with 3D, was the claim. Of course, I don't know how anyone could prefer EU 3 graphics to the previous titles in the series; even at the time EU 3 was new, its graphics looked out of date by the standards of 3D at the time whereas the other EU games were simple but appealing and elegant. (I personally think Paradox never did a better map than the terrain view map in Victoria I)
 
The current Paradox maps and graphics are just ugly (if the guy that leads the graphics section reads this, sorry for the bluntness). The games can be amazing in their content, but just by looking at screenshots I lose interest. I still prefer the EU2 map over the EU3.
 
I, for one, would say that one of the best "new" maps from PI was Rome's one. EU3's, HoI3's etc. all look rather "strange" and lack the finesse from Rome's.

Of course, though, I don't see a good reason either for switching to 3D - the only reason I can see being to attract more customers with more modern graphics, which is something a company must also do, nonetheless.

That said, Victoria, EU2/FtG, HoI2/AoD all have very practical maps which I got accustomed to. It feels almost "awkward" to play on the newest ones. :unsure:
 
No idea why people are whinging about the maps. Go play Pong.

I think we may be mis-interpriting the devs' comments. I would be VERY surprised if EU IV was deterministic in the way that EU2 was.
 
No idea why people are whinging about the maps. Go play Pong.

I think we may be mis-interpriting the devs' comments. I would be VERY surprised if EU IV was deterministic in the way that EU2 was.

For various reasons. One is that it does not enhance gameplay if anything it detracts from it. Secondly I wouldn't be whinging if there was an option to switch to 2D overhead mode, or some way of simulating it. It's also about not having a choice any more - all games seem to go the same way now regardless of how useful the view is. It seems to be trying to appeal to the "less serious" gamer for marketing purposes. However I would suggest that the look alone is unlikely to do that as because as someone said earlier it's almost certain that Paradox's version of 3D graphics will still be out of date compared to the state of the art versions anyway, so why bother? Basically I don't want to see reviews of the latest Paradox game and the first thing written is "now with improved graphics". So what? How about "now with improved gameplay"! I have seen some of the maps released, and whilst you are supposed to say "well that looks better" I'm struggling to work out how having a few tree sprites in a province is more effective at conveying the terrain type than colouring it a certain shade of green. But then I am very old.
 
the biggest advantage the EU3 (and subsequent games) map has is it's easy moddability. iirc, the old EU2 map wasn't as easy to change.
 
For various reasons. One is that it does not enhance gameplay if anything it detracts from it. Secondly I wouldn't be whinging if there was an option to switch to 2D overhead mode, or some way of simulating it. It's also about not having a choice any more - all games seem to go the same way now regardless of how useful the view is. It seems to be trying to appeal to the "less serious" gamer for marketing purposes. However I would suggest that the look alone is unlikely to do that as because as someone said earlier it's almost certain that Paradox's version of 3D graphics will still be out of date compared to the state of the art versions anyway, so why bother? Basically I don't want to see reviews of the latest Paradox game and the first thing written is "now with improved graphics". So what? How about "now with improved gameplay"! I have seen some of the maps released, and whilst you are supposed to say "well that looks better" I'm struggling to work out how having a few tree sprites in a province is more effective at conveying the terrain type than colouring it a certain shade of green. But then I am very old.
No appreciation for eye candy. =(
 
Vanilla EUII was not very "deterministic", when it came to game play and outcomes. Only the events and monarchs were pre-determined, which did often lead to absurd outcomes, such as monarchs dying in battle when there was peace or a OPM Austria or Spain getting events that were clearly meant for a large empire. What "determinism" there was (such as Burgundian inheritance or Unification of Castille and Aragon happening pretty much every game) didn't really ruin the game experience in my opinion - there was still more than enough room for "sandboxing".

When EUIII first came, my impression was that they were trying to contextualize events more, instead of simply having them fire on a predetermined date with the single tag of country existing. So I was more than a little disappointed, when it seemed the game actually lacked most, if not all historical events. As a result, I only bought EUIII last year, with a serious discount.

Instead of contextualizing events, they had been generalized: instead of a realistic event with long and exiting description, most events have little more than a general description of what this style of event does. This seriously diminished the game's ability for story telling. Though at the same time, EUIII has improved many little things, when thinking of its story telling capabilities. For example, rebels with an agenda was IMO a huge improvement in this regard.

I look, more than anything, for a Story Telling Machine when I buy a game, so I would love to see more historicity in the game: more realistic outcomes, more flavour in building and guiding your state.

Needless to say, I greatly preferred EUII soundtrack :)
 
For various reasons. One is that it does not enhance gameplay if anything it detracts from it. Secondly I wouldn't be whinging if there was an option to switch to 2D overhead mode, or some way of simulating it. It's also about not having a choice any more - all games seem to go the same way now regardless of how useful the view is. It seems to be trying to appeal to the "less serious" gamer for marketing purposes. However I would suggest that the look alone is unlikely to do that as because as someone said earlier it's almost certain that Paradox's version of 3D graphics will still be out of date compared to the state of the art versions anyway, so why bother? Basically I don't want to see reviews of the latest Paradox game and the first thing written is "now with improved graphics". So what? How about "now with improved gameplay"! I have seen some of the maps released, and whilst you are supposed to say "well that looks better" I'm struggling to work out how having a few tree sprites in a province is more effective at conveying the terrain type than colouring it a certain shade of green. But then I am very old.
You have yet to outline what's wrong with looking good.
Or attracting new gamers, for that matter.

It's not like Johan, King and the lot will devote time to working on graphics rather than discussing gameplay features and how the game will work. There'll be a few dedicated graphics guys being paid a salary to do their work - presumably the increase in sales is enough to pay for this, plus add more profit for Paradox. What's wrong with this?
 
You have yet to outline what's wrong with looking good.
Or attracting new gamers, for that matter.

It's not like Johan, King and the lot will devote time to working on graphics rather than discussing gameplay features and how the game will work. There'll be a few dedicated graphics guys being paid a salary to do their work - presumably the increase in sales is enough to pay for this, plus add more profit for Paradox. What's wrong with this?

Some people think maps like Victoria 2's look better than this.
 
For some reason I can't get my head past the "3D" maps which are apparently now the norm in such games. I just don't see what they add to the gaming experience and frankly I think a top down view is much easier to see what needs to be seen. For that reason I'll probably, perhaps unreasonably, not be investing in EUIV.

The biggest reason to go 3D is that is much cheaper then 2D. Having to hand draw all the frames of animation takes more time an effort then building 3D models. And the map can be changed by inputing parameters rather then having to redraw the entire thing. o by having a 3D engine they can focus less time and effort on graohics and focus n the important parts.