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Viengua

Viengua

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Jan 12, 2013
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Berbers are the only people capable of raiding coastlines
Vikings are the only people who know how to sail on rivers

Feel free to add more :p
 
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Viengua said:
Berbers are the only people capable of raiding coastlines
Vikings are the only people who know how to sail on rivers

Feel free to add more :p
Click to expand...

It is not that others are incapable, it is that raiding coastlines was against international law and other nations didn't have a cultural or economic incentive to build riverboats.
 
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Atlantians said:
Yes, it was. Between Europeans. Show me otherwise.
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'International Law' didn't really exist in the modern form that that the phrase conjures to mind. As the mechanic (in EU4) stands nations with the ability to raid can't do so outside their religion anyway, which effectively models this. Equally, 'international law' could be effectively modeled in game with treaty breaker penalties.

Feel free to provide evidence for your assertion, but I have come across little to support the assertion that coastal raiding was against international law in 1444. Indeed, it formed a huge part of british naval strategy in dealing with foreign powers such as Spain (see 'Singeing the King of Spain's Beard'). If you wish to assert something, you are the one who must present evidence. If you assert internatio

Also, I didn't say 'between europeans'. The barbary nations in EU4 are the only ones able to raid coasts at all.
 
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Viengua said:
If you wish to assert something, you are the one who must present evidence.
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You have that backwards in this case, since I am saying a practice of unprovoked raiding against non-hostile entities was unaccepted between Europeans.

Your example was a Military engagement between the British Navy and the Spanish Navy at Cadiz.

International law in a modern sense is the expansion of ancient customs regarding the medieval rules of just war, a theory (jus bellum iustum) of war based in the writings of the Catholic Scholar Anselm was widely adhered to throughout the Catholic and, later, Protestant world of Europe.

Anselm's Just War discussions is where we derived terms like Casus Belli, Jus Ad Bellum, Jus in Bello, etc.
 
Atlantians said:
You have that backwards in this case, since I am saying a practice of unprovoked raiding against non-hostile entities was unaccepted between Europeans.

Your example was a Military engagement between the British Navy and the Spanish Navy at Cadiz.
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Each post you make you add more and more caveats to your original statement. Can you make a fully qualified one for me?

Just so I'm clear, I re-read my posts and my posts look really assy; so sorry. Tone is awkward in text form. Loving this thread :3
 
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Viengua said:
Each post you make you add more and more caveats to your original statement. Can you make a fully qualified one for me?

Just so I'm clear, I re-read my posts and my posts look really assy; so sorry. Tone is awkward in text form. Loving this thread :3
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The coastal raiding described by the OP in Mare Nostrum occurs at peace and is unprovoked.

Western powers do raid while blockading, during a war, so that is actually modelled. But they didn't and don't just go raiding their neighbors for kicks. That was against Catholic Just War Teaching, and just plain bad politics.

That is wha I was saying.
 
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Viengua said:
That's fair. How about non-european nations?
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I am only really aware of the Japanese being known for extensive pirating and raiding.

That said, the reason only Berbers got this mechanic is because of the extensive history and notoriety of the Barbary Pirates.
 
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Atlantians said:
The coastal raiding described by the OP in Mare Nostrum occurs at peace and is unprovoked.

Western powers do raid while blockading, during a war, so that is actually modelled. But they didn't and don't just go raiding their neighbors for kicks. That was against Catholic Just War Teaching, and just plain bad politics.

That is wha I was saying.
Click to expand...
Werent the knights Hospitaller infamous raiders and slavers?
 
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petertel123 said:
Werent the knights Hospitaller infamous raiders and slavers?
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I am not aware of them doing that outside of active conflict, which is already modelled in taking sailors surring blockading.

Can you elaborate on that point?
 
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Atlantians said:
I am not aware of them doing that outside of active conflict, which is already modelled in taking sailors surring blockading.

Can you elaborate on that point?
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"Economically hindered by the barren island they now inhabited, many knights went beyond their call of duty by raiding Muslim ships.[20] More and more ships were plundered, from the profits of which many knights lived idly and luxuriously"
That's from the wikipedia article on the knights hospitaller, it uses Corsairs of Malta and Barbary as its source, but I dont have access to that book
The quote seems to imply that the raiding was done continuously, as it was economically necessary and it became a primary source of income for many knights, so it would seem to me that the knights did indeed raid during peacetime.
 
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petertel123 said:
"Economically hindered by the barren island they now inhabited, many knights went beyond their call of duty by raiding Muslim ships.[20] More and more ships were plundered, from the profits of which many knights lived idly and luxuriously"
That's from the wikipedia article on the knights hospitaller, it uses Corsairs of Malta and Barbary as its source, but I dont have access to that book
The quote seems to imply that the raiding was done continuously, as it was economically necessary and it became a primary source of income for many knights, so it would seem to me that the knights did indeed raid during peacetime.
Click to expand...

That is already modeled in Privateering.
 
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