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Bearnest

Makabe Rokurota's Compadre
24 Badges
Jul 1, 2014
750
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  • Crusader Kings III
One of the things I noticed from the released pictures of the game is that England's banner displays the three lions of Plantagenet. Now, I don't want to be unreasonable in regards to historical accuracy (i.e. that the lions shouldn't even appear for William's England in 1067, as per the picture) but at least, Anglo-Saxon rulers shouldn't have said banner. It's immersion breaking.
 
How to express the changing of a title's coats of arms over time? Dynastic shields would seem like a cool option, but that means K England would have a completely different shield each time the ruler flips.

Maybe a prestige-based thing? Hold title, pass threshhold, update?
 
How to express the changing of a title's coats of arms over time? Dynastic shields would seem like a cool option, but that means K England would have a completely different shield each time the ruler flips.

Maybe a prestige-based thing? Hold title, pass threshhold, update?
I don't see how dynastic shields would be too jarring. After all, England only goes from the house of Wessex (Cerdicing), to Normandy, then to Plantagenet, with no others throughout the entire era from 1066 on (I guess the house of Blois as well, but only for a single ruler, and contested the entire time). Other realms might be more problematic, admittedly, such as the HRE with the black dual-headed eagle. Still, could always code for some realms holding particular coats of arms, while others could be variable.
 
I don't see how dynastic shields would be too jarring. After all, England only goes from the house of Wessex (Cerdicing), to Normandy, then to Plantagenet, with no others throughout the entire era from 1066 on (I guess the house of Blois as well, but only for a single ruler, and contested the entire time). Other realms might be more problematic, admittedly, such as the HRE with the black dual-headed eagle. Still, could always code for some realms holding particular coats of arms, while others could be variable.
Whilst in theory I'm not against kingdom-tier realms using dynamic coats of arms, what happens when you have too many of them? e.g. Karlings, 867
 
The Karlings are a hivemind anyways :p

But jokes aside, no, that's a good point. Perhaps a pre-set default, even for kingdoms with dynamic coats of arms? I'm unsure, thinking upon it further. After all, England is the only country that leaps to mind that could truly use a dynamic coat of arms, since the three lions only suit the Norman kings, and thus doesn't work for a 867 start (or any Saxon revival, woo Edgar Ætheling!).
 
The Karlings are a hivemind anyways :p

But jokes aside, no, that's a good point. Perhaps a pre-set default, even for kingdoms with dynamic coats of arms? I'm unsure, thinking upon it further. After all, England is the only country that leaps to mind that could truly use a dynamic coat of arms, since the three lions only suit the Norman kings, and thus doesn't work for a 867 start (or any Saxon revival, woo Edgar Ætheling!).
Well if you want to get technical the three lions aren't suitable for the Normans at all, with the third lion only being introduced by Richard the Lionheart. Norman England basically did the dynamic CoA thing we're discussing here and just adopted the arms of Normandy, which are two lions. :p

I think that having dynamic CoAs is great and should - if it's doable without causing too much confusion - perhaps be an option, but it probably shouldn't be the default. I mean maybe Paradox have something interesting up their sleeve for this, but assuming they don't I think just having the Saxon wyvern for pre-1066 and the three lions for post-1066 is absolutely fine.
 
I hope we can see a lot more CoA localizations like this. Would be great for pagan kingdoms and empires like Scandinavia to use their own banners instead of the clearly Christian ones.
 
How to express the changing of a title's coats of arms over time? Dynastic shields would seem like a cool option, but that means K England would have a completely different shield each time the ruler flips.

Maybe a prestige-based thing? Hold title, pass threshhold, update?
Whoa, this went in a completely different direction of what I had intended. I was merely suggesting that k_england have a CoA for Anglo-Saxon rule and a different CoA for Norman rule, in the same way as Lombardy and Italy have right now in CK2.

Dynamic CoAs for realms sound cool, but could be very confusing after a couple of decades if a dynasty rule over different polities (Karlings come to mind); however I wouldn't mind a CoA customization mechanic for realms.
 
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