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Pommeralia: German, Polish or Baltic culture?

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MattyG

MattyG

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Mar 23, 2003
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In Interregnum 2 'pommern' has four provinces, from west to east Vorpommern, Pommern, Hintepommern and Pommeralia.

Hinterpommern and Pommern (for those of you who have seen the new map) cover the area that was settled by slavic peoples and changed hands between Polish and German rulers over the centuries.

Which culture should each of these areas be? Start Polish and change to German at some point? Or the opposite, depending on who owns it?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
MattyG said:
In Interregnum 2 'pommern' has four provinces, from west to east Vorpommern, Pommern, Hintepommern and Pommeralia.

Hinterpommern and Pommern (for those of you who have seen the new map) cover the area that was settled by slavic peoples and changed hands between Polish and German rulers over the centuries.

Which culture should each of these areas be? Start Polish and change to German at some point? Or the opposite, depending on who owns it?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well currently in AGCEEP it is depending who owns it. And its a good compromise which was pretty hard to reach as any discussion on the topic easily changes to flamewars.
 
Fair enough.

Assuming it begins as the Duchy of Pommerelia, the culture type ought then to be Polish, yes?
 
MattyG said:
Fair enough.

Assuming it begins as the Duchy of Pommerelia, the culture type ought then to be Polish, yes?
Click to expand...

Methinks it should be that way :

Brandenburg, Hansa, Bavaria - German
All countries with polish culture - Polish + TO or Hungary if they gain polish culture.

The same could be probably considered with silesia or Neumark
 
Anazagar said:
Methinks it should be that way :

Brandenburg, Hansa, Bavaria - German
All countries with polish culture - Polish + TO or Hungary if they gain polish culture.

The same could be probably considered with silesia or Neumark
Click to expand...

Excellent comment, thank you.

Thankfully I am well prepared to deal with this as every country in the game begins with an event which sets critical flags for it, include a command

setflag which = german_culture

and so forth for each culture group it has.

Therefore I can easily have events that check for this to switch it between them.

Thanks for the suggestions on Silesia and Neumark.

Couldn't Silesia also be West Slavic?
 
MattyG said:
Couldn't Silesia also be West Slavic?
Click to expand...

Polish nationalism that dwells within cannot accept such outcome. Silesia was a battlefield between polish and german cultures and not bohemian.

EDIT

and about wendish it's more to the west, like on the left side of Oder river.
 
Therion said:
It should be Wendish.
Click to expand...


By 1419 the Wends are not a cultural group that dominates any province. And from what I have read Wendish is not analagous to West Slavic, the culture group we are calling 'czech' and 'slovac' groups.

Please don't get upset and please begin a discussion of this if it is important to you.
 
Anazagar is right. The Slavic people/culture west of the Oder is called Kashubian. The Pomeranian dukes and Swedish kings used the term. The Swedish and Danish kings also used 'King of the Wends' in the EU2 period so I thought the term might be of of some relevance. But anyway, Kashubians should not be distinguished from the Poles and they should be 'Polish' rather than 'West Slavic' (unless West Slavic will also include Polish).
 
Therion said:
Anazagar is right. The Slavic people/culture west of the Oder is called Kashubian. The Pomeranian dukes and Swedish kings used the term. The Swedish and Danish kings also used 'King of the Wends' in the EU2 period so I thought the term might be of of some relevance. But anyway, Kashubians should not be distinguished from the Poles and they should be 'Polish' rather than 'West Slavic' (unless West Slavic will also include Polish).
Click to expand...


Grouping them all as West Slavic is too general for this time period.

kashubian is really too small of a group to be reflected in this game, along with Sorbian groups.

Polish, Czech, Slovak are the most detailed we'd want to get, and many people argued that at this time Czech and Slovak are too closely related culturally to be distinct.

Please correct me and suggest alternatives.
 
Pomerelia:

German -> Danziger (assuming we go through with the Danzig culture set-up)

It belongs to Danzig, or whatever we'll be calling it, and is in fact the capital.
 
Time Consumer said:
Pomerelia:

German -> Danziger (assuming we go through with the Danzig culture set-up)

It belongs to Danzig, or whatever we'll be calling it, and is in fact the capital.
Click to expand...

The danziger culture concept I think is one which will develop over time, no one which begins at game start.

It will also be somewhat dependent on the country remaining small and therefore being able to develop an insular/independent sense of self. A Danzig which, say, begins to absorb other german culture provinces will simply remain German.
 
One note - Vorpommern and Pommern should be excluded from the Polish/German culture switch events. By XV cent. those lands were fairly germanized already.
 
Anazagar said:
One note - Vorpommern and Pommern should be excluded from the Polish/German culture switch events. By XV cent. those lands were fairly germanized already.
Click to expand...

In Interregnum (at least currently) those two provinces form the Duchy of Pomerelia (name might need to differ slightly) with its original Polish 'Griffin' house ruling. Accoringly, it seems more likely that the provinces have Polish culture at start.
 
MattyG said:
In Interregnum (at least currently) those two provinces form the Duchy of Pomerelia (name might need to differ slightly) with its original Polish 'Griffin' house ruling. Accoringly, it seems more likely that the provinces have Polish culture at start.
Click to expand...

It is ruled by Gryffins, yes. But they are a member of HRE and as such those lands were subject to heavy german colonization during the XIII-XIV cent.
 
Anazagar said:
It is ruled by Gryffins, yes. But they are a member of HRE and as such those lands were subject to heavy german colonization during the XIII-XIV cent.
Click to expand...

Under what conditions would the provinces change to Polish culture.
 
MattyG said:
Under what conditions would the provinces change to Polish culture.
Click to expand...

Well i'll put it that way - west of oder (bar silesia) - no polish culture. Lands that provinces of Vorpommern and Pommern while purely slavic at a point in history ( X-XI cent methinks) were never part of the kingom of poland (which is the major factor regarding polish culture). So Hinterpommern, pommerelia, warmia - yes while vorpommern, pommern - no.
 
Anazagar said:
Well i'll put it that way - west of oder (bar silesia) - no polish culture. Lands that provinces of Vorpommern and Pommern while purely slavic at a point in history ( X-XI cent methinks) were never part of the kingom of poland (which is the major factor regarding polish culture). So Hinterpommern, pommerelia, warmia - yes while vorpommern, pommern - no.
Click to expand...

OK, I get it.

So, Silesia, Hinterpommern, Warmia, Pomerelia can all switch between German and Polish.

Check.
 
MattyG said:
OK, I get it.

So, Silesia, Hinterpommern, Warmia, Pomerelia can all switch between German and Polish.

Check.
Click to expand...

Yes those + Neumark
 
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