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Population growth should have a relation to stability

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Tilp

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Mar 19, 2016
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As far as I can tell from what has been released so far, population is generally somewhat stable and is hard to increase or decrease with Dev Diary 17 stating that increasing population growth is generally done by having free land and lots of food, which is good! However, I think EU5 should take some inspiration from MEIOU and Taxes as have population growth having a small relation to stability, not a large one, but one that exists. Gameplay wise this would also encourage more tall play, and less reform, as of right now from the Youtube videos it seems like every player goes all in on reforms as soon as possible and basically disregards stability (this could be as a result of how compressed the videos are however).

In essence my argument for a stability-population growth relation is:
* Encourages tall play
* discourages blobbing
* Allows for more player agency in relation to population
* Provides more meaning for stability
* Allows for peaceful nations to be a threat to aggressive nations even later on in the game, providing some extra challenge
* Provides more resistance to rapid reformations of the government, and more consequences for doing so.
* Stability will be less like a Mana resource and more like a indicator of how the nation is doing

Arguments Against:
* Too much stability seems to have been a detriment to growth historically (same with too little)
* mechanic may feel gamey?
* May lead to unbalanced outcomes, where historically weak nation are more powerful than they should be
* (MEF) Mechanic is too abstracted, and has a good chance of being unenjoyable if implemented as I have proposed
* (MEF) EU5 has enough tools for simulating population growth
* (MEF) Probably a better idea to use province prosperity, rather than stability for a population growth modifier


My apologies if this has been mentioned somewhere and I have not noticed it, or if it is already implemented and I am blind.

(Arguments added in are labeled)
 
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I don't like when a relatively abstract mechanic like stability affects population growth, but to be fair I also think that population capacity is one of the worst concepts in the game.
The game has enough tools for a simulation approach to population growth.

For example, rather than using country-wide stability to affect it, why not use per-location prosperity levels?
 
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Mef said:
I don't like when a relatively abstract mechanic like stability affects population growth, but to be fair I also think that population capacity is one of the worst concepts in the game.
The game has enough tools for a simulation approach to population growth.

For example, rather than using country-wide stability to affect it, why not use per-location prosperity levels?
Click to expand...
I would actually love it if they did that! My main concern with that is how much computing resources that would take. Which is kind of where I landed on stability, it provides more oomf to stability, while still being an understandable concept even with the abstractedness of stability hence being logically coherent, and is a change that the developers can make in the late stages of the game, without having to add any new systems (I think). TBF you would probably have more experience with that than I do.

Summarized:
* Per-location is excellent, and should be used if feasible.
* if not feasible, stability can be a decent abstracted substitute.
 
Mef said:
Why? It's just an add_population_growth modifier added to the prosperity static modifier, which already has other modifiers in it, I don't see how there could be any noticeable impact on performance.
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My understanding was the EU5 did not already have prosperity levels for each province, but it sounds like I am wrong about that lol, in which case your idea is better, I just have fears about getting to a state like MEIOU and Taxes, which while excellent, was incredibly laggy
 
Tilp said:
My understanding was the EU5 did not already have prosperity levels for each province, but it sounds like I am wrong about that lol, in which case your idea is better, I just have fears about getting to a state like MEIOU and Taxes, which while excellent, was incredibly laggy
Click to expand...
It's easy to forget, but prosperity does indeed exist and it already affects population growth:
1747234728242.png
 
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