Post War Diplomacy

[Stratagyfan101]

In CK1 this was terribly lacking. It was especially bad when I ceded random claims I deidn't want and enforced my claim as King and then lossed massive chunks of prestige.

Now P'Dox has come a long way in diplomacy but even EU3 HttT, as far as I know, doesn't allow for both side to relinquish claims.

So what I'm wondering is, in the opinion of the forum, will we see a more EU3 esque system. One that clearly displays BB and Prestige (gains) but doesn't allow for a two-way treaty. Or will P'Dox create a unique system for this game.

Also ideas for a new system would be nice too.

P.S. This idea just came to me when I was settling a deal with my vassal as Sicily and lossed almost 700 prestige by revoking my claims on his Duke and count title and enforcing my claim as King of Sicily.

 

[Nisco]

I agree that there should be some kind of unique system but I think that it may be too difficult to implant just for this game. I hope that they will implant it to add a more realistic system to the game. Let us hope that they will.

 

[takedown47]

I agree that there should be some kind of unique system but I think that it may be too difficult to implant just for this game. I hope that they will implant it to add a more realistic system to the game. Let us hope that they will.

realistic yes, in a medieval way, not an EU3 or EU Rome or Victoria 2 way. i hope CK2 finds its own unique voice.

 

[Nisco]

I'm pretty sure that CK2 will find it's own voice. I don't know any game that allows the player to follow a dynasty in the same way. To add some more to the post was diplomacy, I think that it would be nice if the beaten ruler could be able to try to claim his lost land for some of his vassals.

 

[Stratagyfan101]

^ This. I always disliked this about the game and other paradox diplomacy systems. There is a point in time when I conquer somthing, that I really just dont wat it, but I dont want the enemy to have it.

Example being called to crusade in Spain (for Burgos) conquering roughly ten provinces and then being stuck with ten random spanish provinces when your kingdom is in Italy.

Now I do plan to at some point take over Spain but not yet. The only way I could do what I wanted to was to save, quit and mod the provinces to Castille and add +200 relations and make an alliance.

 

[TempestDK]

^ This. I always disliked this about the game and other paradox diplomacy systems. There is a point in time when I conquer somthing, that I really just dont wat it, but I dont want the enemy to have it.

Example being called to crusade in Spain (for Burgos) conquering roughly ten provinces and then being stuck with ten random spanish provinces when your kingdom is in Italy.

Now I do plan to at some point take over Spain but not yet. The only way I could do what I wanted to was to save, quit and mod the provinces to Castille and add +200 relations and make an alliance.

Well in V2 you can have war goals .. and if I remember right, one of them is to get the opponent to release a vassal. This could be modified in a way where you force the enemy to relinquish the claims for the land, and you get to put a new ruler in place, and let that land be independent.

Am I understanding what you mean right??

This should also keep you from gathering up huge amounts of BB to get the provinces in peace talks, and then only reduce BB slightly as you start releasing the provinces to vassals.

 

[Stratagyfan101]

I was thinking more of conquering for another ruler. So if I go crusading in Iberia I dont have random provinces I dont care for, as well as a really ugly map of blotches of random colors because every kingdom involved in the war now has its own Iberian province.

In the situation I described I just wanted to help Castille fight off Seville. The reson being, from personal experience, once you control all of Iberia your unbeatable.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

In the situation I described I just wanted to help Castille fight off Seville.

Actually, you could do that already. Keep attacking/weakening Seville's Armies and lifting the Sieges of Castille's provinces. You could even Siege Seville's provinces, just don't accept/demand any Peace processes that include new territory. Let Castille demand the provinces it wants first, then you could just peace out.

 

[Nicodemus]

In truth I'm partial to the Vicky 2 system...but...it's too diplomatic. And not at all in spirit of that particular age, so no, in the end I do hope they make something unique. But I do want more options -- a lot more -- than the ones offered in CK1.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

In truth I'm partial to the Vicky 2 system...but...it's too diplomatic. And not at all in spirit of that particular age, so no, in the end I do hope they make something unique. But I do want more options -- a lot more -- than the ones offered in CK1.

Actually in this era it was more about dipomatic moves than Vicky era. However, it would need to retailored to this age and the dynamics of the politics.

 

[Nick B II]

P.S. This idea just came to me when I was settling a deal with my vassal as Sicily and lossed almost 700 prestige by revoking my claims on his Duke and count title and enforcing my claim as King of Sicily.

What happened here was pretty simple. Your peace score was higher then your warscore, or it was negative. In either case you lose prestige.

Let me guess -- most of your country rebelled, he was a fairly powerful Duke, so when you signed the peace deal he technically had a lot more titles in his Duchy then you had in your Kingdom?

The design issue isn't that mechanic, it's how the game calculates peace-score and war-score. They're based on prestige costs for grabbing the title, which are based on the number of titles in a realm, so something quite minor IRL (ie: not humiliating the Count of Franken by forcing him to relinquish his claims to Germany, Burgundy, etc.) can have a massive impact on the prestige-value of a peace deal.

If they can get the peace-score/war-score numbers to make more sense in CK2 the problem won't appear again.

Otherwise they should probably add a standard re-vassalize, give-up-claims button that automatically takes a small amount of prestige from the vassal and gives it to the liege (like 50 prestige) to reflect the fact the vassal is being forced back into the fold, and ignore the peace-score/war-score thing entirely.

Nick

 

[fangio]

would be nice if they gave you an option to support claimholders. So if your friend, ally or person on your court has a claim you could force the other guy to give up a province and or ducal title to that person. aditional benifits would be prestige and better relations with the new count, duke or even king

 

[Hawkeye1489]

would be nice if they gave you an option to support claimholders. So if your friend, ally or person on your court has a claim you could force the other guy to give up a province and or ducal title to that person. aditional benifits would be prestige and better relations with the new count, duke or even king

This feature is in CK1...at least in DV. If you have a claimholder of a province in a nation you are at war with, you can force them to cede the province to that claimholder.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

This feature is in CK1...at least in DV. If you have a claimholder of a province in a nation you are at war with, you can force them to cede the province to that claimholder.

But only if you don't have a claim on that title yourself and you still get the BB for taking the title even if you let it go to the title-holder.

 

[fangio]

never knew that. guess this will give me a lot of roleplaying options

 

[Stratagyfan101]

What happened here was pretty simple. Your peace score was higher then your warscore, or it was negative. In either case you lose prestige.

Let me guess -- most of your country rebelled, he was a fairly powerful Duke, so when you signed the peace deal he technically had a lot more titles in his Duchy then you had in your Kingdom?

The design issue isn't that mechanic, it's how the game calculates peace-score and war-score. They're based on prestige costs for grabbing the title, which are based on the number of titles in a realm, so something quite minor IRL (ie: not humiliating the Count of Franken by forcing him to relinquish his claims to Germany, Burgundy, etc.) can have a massive impact on the prestige-value of a peace deal.

If they can get the peace-score/war-score numbers to make more sense in CK2 the problem won't appear again.

Otherwise they should probably add a standard re-vassalize, give-up-claims button that automatically takes a small amount of prestige from the vassal and gives it to the liege (like 50 prestige) to reflect the fact the vassal is being forced back into the fold, and ignore the peace-score/war-score thing entirely.

Nick

Yea but AI is really bad at both war and diplomacy. I'd like to conquer provinces for another kingdom and have them ceded to them.

Alternative solution could be a sell province feature that has a gift province button to improve relations.

As for me losing prestige it is a good idea to have a re-vassalize peace option (auto relinquish claim and force vassal. Which adds prestige to ruler.

 

[Nicodemus]

Actually in this era it was more about dipomatic moves than Vicky era. However, it would need to retailored to this age and the dynamics of the politics.

That would be some heavy retailoring, I don't think that many of my diplomatic moves in Vikcy2 would translate well in CK.