Progressive dysgenetic of valyrian families in Westeros

[Zarkaro]

I started the game as Rhaegar during the usurper war and noticed that all the unknown wifes of house velaryon and celtigar are set as westerosi.

And their children as well are appointed to westerosi wifes during the game.

(same for house dayne)

In noting more than one generation the valyrian appearances are gone, whats the point with that?

And, is there a way to avoid this genetic dispersion?

 

[Unclejimbo]

Easiest way is just go gfx_culture <char id> <culture> and set anyone who you think should be Valyrian to valyrian.

 

[macgeezy731]

Easiest way is just go gfx_culture <char id> <culture> and set anyone who you think should be Valyrian to valyrian.

does this change features or no?

 

[Wandering Sentinel]

It sets their ethnicity, and therefore the portaits used, to the culture you pick.

 

[Zarkaro]

so basically, I have to assist the game every time they take wife on their own or they are doomed...

Is there a way to mod these families to prevent this attitude during the game?

Like, maybe setting the house religion in valyrian should help limiting the thing.

Any suggestion?

 

[Xoatly]

Marry inside the families to keep the blood pure.

 

[Moarice]

Marry inside the families to keep the blood pure.

Lannisters approve.

 

[Wandering Sentinel]

Lannisters approve.

What about the Targaryens?
Edited because I appearantly don't know how to spell....

 

[Moarice]

What about the Targaryans?

Targaryen incest isn't a meme, sadly.

 

[Wandering Sentinel]

I find that hard to believe considering it's part of the reason half of them went insane...

 

[macgeezy731]

After playing a couple of games, this area of the world has started to sit slightly wrong to me. The first of these is religion. R'hllor may be one of the gods making inroads in the area, (just as he is in Westeros) but Lys has prominent known deities of her own; a Love goddess who features prominently on the iconography of Lys itself, and the weeping lady of Lys (who may or may not be the same deity, given how little we know of them, but is the Lysine goddess of death associated with the Tears of Lys poison). R'hllor is present, yes, but is only really a dominant force in Volantis. I understand that the CK2 mechanics make having a set religion a necessity, but even if a filler religion is needed until someone makes the real one for these cultures or we learn a bit more about them, wouldn't Trios be a better choice then R'hllor for Lys and Myr, given the Triarchy/Kingdom of the three daughters? It'd also give Trios a few more holy sites to spread around, rather then having five sites squished into a Six-province state.

The second is cultural. Lys almost certainly has more of the blood of Valyria then the people of Dragonstone outside of the High Valyrian Lords themselves (which in canon they frequently mixed with; when Targaryen Kings and Princes didn't have sisters to marry they would frequently look to Lys for a Valyrian-blooded wife rather then think of breeding legitimate children with the local Westrossi Andals) so should certainly be be placed in the Valyrian cultural group. For Tyrosh the case isn't quite as strong, but it could possibly be there too, given that the city of Tyrosh itself is another Valyrian colony-island, like Lys and Dagonstone. Myr, meanwhile, may have been a Valyrian colony but most of her actual people are descended more from Andals and Rhoynar; thus placing her in the Dornish culture group would be a perfect fit if Essosi or Valyrian culture seems unfitting in her case.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes by placing them out there, and for all I know you might have next-update plans already that make this completely unnecessary. So, thank you for reading, anyone who does!

I agree with everything EXCEPT the Myrish culture change. I say keep them as Myrish, change the religion to trios. I love the idea of being able to have an event to "search for a valyrian spouse" in Lys. This would be awesome. It could even be a expensive venture (as a trip to Lys could be) especially since swooning the Noble Valyrian families that stayed in Lys. I also think that the High and West Valyrian Families should be coded to have a preference to marriage with other valyrian families. This would keep the valyrian features alive in most of those families. Too many times have the Celtigars and the Sunglass families died out within 3 generations. Not sure why but it almost always happens unless I "make" them stay alive by matrilineal marriages with high valyrian commoners. To me that would help. to have the Valyrian culture families prefer other valyrians.

I think we could come up with some pretty creative ways/events to help with the Valyrian situation for the modders and they could tell us if its feasible. Events such as a bride/spouse search of valyrian blood, Dragonseed adoption, possibly increase in Valyrian fertility in the minor houses, more Cadet valyrian houses possibities with increased fertility, and possible a really Expensive venture that will give you a spouse/bride with the attractive, strong, quick/genius trait that way you get your moneys worth.

You are not kidding. Volantis is a refuge of bitterness and rebellion. i dont know why they are so angry other than maybe the religious differences there. but a lot of that could be cleaned up and adjusted to be more lore friendly and it might actually help the stability there.

I also think if you conquer the free cities it should be easier to appoint a feudal government to rule over the different kingdoms since its easier to rule a bunch of "kings/lord paramounts" than Republics.

this was talked about in another thread. i posted the link below and added the fiirst couple of replies in quotes above.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/lys-myr-and-tyrosh.906509/

 

[Zarkaro]

this was talked about in another thread. i posted the link below and added the fiirst couple of replies in quotes above.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/lys-myr-and-tyrosh.906509/

The event "search a valyrian spouse" makes a lot of sense, If you look into this suicidal attitude the game presents.

Still, I cannot explain myself why the pre-set unknown wives of Valyrian families are crowlanders, wouldn't be at least more logical a western_valyrian ethnicity?

 

[macgeezy731]

The event "search a valyrian spouse" makes a lot of sense, If you look into this suicidal attitude the game presents.

Still, I cannot explain myself why the pre-set unknown wives of Valyrian families are crowlanders, wouldn't be at least more logical a western_valyrian ethnicity?

It would definately help with the (what feels like) insta-death of the valyrain culture group. Hopefully someone (mod developers) will see these suggestions.

 

[blackninja9939]

Hmmmm decent idea regarding searching for a valyrian looking spouse but it is gonna be a low priority right now

 

[macgeezy731]

Hmmmm decent idea regarding searching for a valyrian looking spouse but it is gonna be a low priority right now

i think that's understood all around. These were just some creative juices flowing on a lonely weekend night. Hopefully you guys liked some of the ideas that were tossed around.

 

[queermobile]

I really like the idea of the search for a Valyrian bride. Or even better, the invite debutante decision for a Valyrian ruler of the IT creating a Valyrian courtier instead of a crownland culture courtier.

Something sort of naughty I started doing this weekend is consoling over to Mantarys, consoling 3000 gold and console moving three Valyrian courtiers from Volantis. Then I colonies the duchy of Draconys and grant the counties to those men; they'll generate Valyrian culture courtiers.

 

[macgeezy731]

I think an event to "search for a valyrian bride" given there are still Families like Rogare and Belaerys in Essos are feasible. it could be an event where you pay a large dowery to bypass the false religion and foreigner dislike. also as was outlined in the thread above i think the scenario that was talked about there could work as well.

 

[iquabakaner]

I really like the idea of the search for a Valyrian bride. Or even better, the invite debutante decision for a Valyrian ruler of the IT creating a Valyrian courtier instead of a crownland culture courtier.

Something sort of naughty I started doing this weekend is consoling over to Mantarys, consoling 3000 gold and console moving three Valyrian courtiers from Volantis. Then I colonies the duchy of Draconys and grant the counties to those men; they'll generate Valyrian culture courtiers.

I used that decision a lot in my Velaryon game. It should generate a lowborn female with the local culture but your ethnicity, which was High Valyrian in my case.

 

[Zarkaro]

So, we all agree on the "search valyrian blood bride" event, but still, why all the unknown wifes inside valyrian houses are crowlanders?

Lucerys Velaryon is married to Elinor (77161, crowlander)

His son Monford is married to Marianne (10052, crowlander)

His two grandsons Maelys and Monterys get random crowlander wifes.

this is just an example, same with celtigar, sunglass, dayne and so on.
Im not complaint, its an easy moddable issue, but why is it there?

Its dysgenic, in two or one generations they are simply gone.

And can we do something to restrict these families from "outbreeding" during the game? Like an extremely negative opinion malus [>if not valyrian/lyseni]

 

[macgeezy731]

So, we all agree on the "search valyrian blood bride" event, but still, why all the unknown wifes inside valyrian houses are crowlanders?

Lucerys Velaryon is married to Elinor (77161, crowlander)

His son Monford is married to Marianne (10052, crowlander)

His two grandsons Maelys and Monterys get random crowlander wifes.

this is just an example, same with celtigar, sunglass, dayne and so on.
Im not complaint, its an easy moddable issue, but why is it there?

Its dysgenic, in two or one generations they are simply gone.

And can we do something to restrict these families from "outbreeding" during the game? Like an extremely negative opinion malus [>if not valyrian/lyseni]

Maybe the crownlander spouses are random place fillers.And given that the Crownlands encompasses the houses Velaryon, Sunglass and Celtigar it just picks that as the default culture for place fillers.

I mean hell the Rambton are west valyrian but I've yet to see them with any traits that look Valyrian. I'm not saying its not possible but i just havent noticed it in my 600 plus hours of playing this mod.