Psionic and Genetic (and storms): seriously, when?

[Thiend]

Simply put, can we get some sort of information on when these game features will be fixed?

Psionic and Genetic are in need of comparable updates to those for Cybernetic and Synthetic/Machine in Machine Age.

Storms need... quite a bit of work to be honest, in basically all areas. The only functional part of that DLC is the Planetscapers civic, not a single other thing.

I made a thread basically just like this one in October, and we were told in it that more talk of planned updates (to the two ascensions) would be "in November." We were also told that normal post-launch fixes (for storms) would be in 3.14.1, and in total the changes in that patch for storms are that Nexus storms are larger (IE even more of a problem because storms are currently a problem) and that pathfinding was 'improved.' I'll take your word for that, but I do have the DLC disabled because of how low-quality virtually all of its features currently are so I haven't experienced the change.

Now, November isn't over, but the dev diary today says pretty clearly that the dev diary for next week is going to be asking for more feedback on features as they are now. Great, I say! Absolutely splendid way to direct your (devs) focus. Also not about planned updates for either ascension, or for Cosmic Storms that is currently, to put it plainly, a complete waste of my money to have paid for.

I'm usually not this pushy, but I'm not going to drop this until it's addressed: fixes for the above critical features when? The only possible way for next week's feedback dev diary to be about the ascensions is if you actually have no current plans for how to fix them, let alone to actually do it within the next year given you've said in that very dev diary from today that development is largely already set through the next year. This could be a miscommunication, but I want to make sure BEFORE the stated timeframe passes that you haven't actually forgotten it. Cosmic Storms also needs a ton more work, and "we're working on it/working on ideas/here, talk about it in this feedback dev diary and we'll fix it with that" are all fine, but radio silence is not.

 

[Vielmann]

Where do you get November from? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere and I always got the impression the ascension reworks (Bio probably First) are coming earliest with the next big releases next year.

 

[Thiend]

Where do you get November from? I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere and I always got the impression the ascension reworks (Bio probably First) are coming earliest with the next big releases next year.

The last thread I made like this, and they didn't say the fix would be IN November. Rather, communication of how/when they will would be, which obviously isn't happening based on what they've said will be in the next dev diary (and only remaining one in November).

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

My hunch is that they will be addressed in 2025, probably in separate DLCs since the two paths are so conceptually different (unlike Cybernetic and Synthetic). If for no other reason, then at least for the talk of biological ships (genetics), and the fact that Void Clouds somehow slipped past both a cosmic weather DLC *and* a cosmic fauna DLC without being changed in any way. The optimist can interpret that last part as there being other plans for the Void Clouds, and they would fit best together with a psionic/ethereal DLC...

 

[SirBlackAxe]

From today's dev diary:

The Machine Age and 3.12 began the process of elevating the Ascension Paths to new heights. The positive reaction to The Machine Age and the success of the Season 08 Expansion Pass strongly affected our plans for 2025, and made us also reflect upon questions like “what is a Crisis anyway", “what is ‘winning’”, and “can we remaster two very different Ascension Paths in a single year”.

"remastering two very different Ascension Paths" sounds like they're considering doing rework DLCs for both genetics and psionics next year.

Also, asking for feedback on current features next week could very reasonably involve asking what people want out of those ascension paths.

 

[z3rO_]

Psionics need a rework? It just got a pretty good and strong one, and I feel it is still very decent. What is the problem with it?

"What is winning" question is interesting though. Wonder why they are asking it.

 

[Thiend]

Psionics need a rework? It just got a pretty good and strong one, and I feel it is still very decent. What is the problem with it?

"What is winning" question is interesting though. Wonder why they are asking it.

I'm gonna go for a very brief answer here, because they've already said they ARE going to rework it and I don't want to write ten pages of this.

First off, "just" got a rework? No. Not recent. It was updated at the same time all the ascensions were, to ROUGHLY the same ballpark power level, then half of them were massively buffed and expanded. It is not decent just because you don't lose the game when playing it, it is both weaker and less interesting to play compared to the two updated ascensions.

As a brief listing of major problems (ignoring more minor ones)...

1. A massive amount of the ascension's power is locked behind specifically the God-Emperor event, which cannot fire for megacorps at all. It also forcibly shifts ethics and government type, which removes locked civics that aren't compatible with it as-changed. This means, for example, that it is impossible to have Sovereign Guardianship and actually functioning psionic ascension simultaneously, because this event behind which much of the power of psionic is locked will remove Sovereign Guardianship when it removes militarism. It is extremely arbitrarily restrictive, which is true of psionic generally because it is so locked to spiritualism (and authoritarianism, and dictatorial/imperial).
2. Psionic is fully unique among ascensions in that it has downsides at all compared to no-ascension empires, specifically that covenants give both permanent and intermittent downsides of varying severity.
3. It also has some of the most worthless features of any ascension, such as base intel level and encryption/decryption buffs taking up its tradition tree or the Mark of [Covenant] components (without listing them, I'll summarize that they're all bad). It is also simultaneously the only ascension which requires a certain amount of pops per planet to get most of its effects and the only ascension without massive growth and/or assembly buffs to actually make that happen.
4. The main things psionic had going for it in previous versions to Machine Age were per-pop efficiency and some unique and good ship components. Unique ship components are now extremely minor compared to Nanotech getting entire ship TYPES, and synthetic/machine can easily compete with or exceed psionic on a per-pop basis while having way, way more pops. Cybernetic can also do this depending on specific authority. Psionic no longer has anything unique going for it, but does have unique downsides (the least pops, the literal downsides in covenants and shroud RNG). Psionic also had the only truly immortal leaders for non-gestalts, which is no longer the case because all machines can be immortal.
5. This brings me to shroud RNG. Psionic is the only ascension that can just completely screw you over via RNG and there isn't a single thing you can do about it. From literal downside effects shroud delving, to the few solidly good things psionic actually has like components not appearing, to events like the Chosen One selection occasionally not giving you the leader you want to BE the Chosen One, or killing them if you do select them (and the Covenant Chosen One can't be refused, so if it doesn't give you a leader you want the trait on too bad one-time event over). Psionic is user-unfriendly because the way it's currently set up fights you every step of the way, which could be rewarding if it came out stronger than other ascensions which it does not.

Summarized version: psionic is weak, what used to be unique and make it stand out isn't, and doesn't. It is very user unfriendly (psionic is this way because of RNG, primarily, while for genetic it is because of micromanagement hell with no payoff).

This is also basically the problem for Genetic, although it was never quite as unique, it did have far and away the best sheer number of pops and that gave it an edge. It no longer has the edge in number of pops so it's garbage. Psionic was that same way but for per-pop/per-ship quality, and lost that edge the same way.

 

[Nyrael]

The Devs said several times that it is in plans due to good reception of Cybernetic and Synthetic ascension ovehauls. But it was obvious that it would not be this year.

They initially said that they doubt they would come in the same DLC, but then in latest Dev Diary said that they wonder if they could overhaul both together. Mind you that both would take a lot of work as it isn't just changing some numbers.

So basically, Q2 2025 at earliest, but most likely Q3 or Q4. Basically, the next major expansion should overhaul one, with small chance of it overhauling both.

 

[Eladrin]

I generally prefer dropping bits of information and letting you infer things from them, but I'll state it outright:

Biological Ascension and Psionic Ascension will both be elevated to the level of Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions during 2025. They will not be in the same release, as they are too different from each other. (Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions shared more common themes.) I didn't want Psionics to be left behind for another year though. It's in a better state overall than Biological Ascension, so would have been a lower priority.

Also, asking for feedback on current features next week could very reasonably involve asking what people want out of those ascension paths.

They're both already well in development, we've been reading threads about them for a long, long time. The feedback threads will mostly affect the Custodian team's efforts though might tweak some things the expansion team is working on.

The expansion team works on very long timelines.

 

[Archael90]

Bio ascension do not need much:
Bio ascension, gene modding and gene tab, and also transgenesis genes from leviathans could be able to:
1. be harvest while leviathan is resurrected with necromancy or cordyceps.
2. be gathered from non-bio empires and be able to sell to bio empires.
3. be able to be shared by empire through means.
Also bio ascension could be split into bio ascension buffing pops, and bio ascension buffing space fauna. Maybe path that changes all pops into one big biomass that can take any form and basically covers whole planet?

Psy ascension is quite good atm but i have my concerns:
1. More psi techs.
2. Shield nullification effects should be countered by shield hardenig (and psy avatar should have 100% shield hardening).
3. Ability to become pure energy psionic pops (including machines becoming pure energy).
4. Give machines a soul already, we know they have it but You just keep ignoring it :v

 

[LiZinckle]

Biological Ascension and Psionic Ascension will both be elevated to the level of Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions during 2025. They will not be in the same release, as they are too different from each other. (Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions shared more common themes.) I didn't want Psionics to be left behind for another year though. It's in a better state overall than Biological Ascension, so would have been a lower priority.



They're both already well in development, we've been reading threads about them for a long, long time. The feedback threads will mostly affect the Custodian team's efforts though might tweak some things the expansion team is working on.

Glad to hear the confirmation. Still, I prefer if there would be a band-aid patch for a smooth transition.

 

[gigabytemon]

I generally prefer dropping bits of information and letting you infer things from them, but I'll state it outright:

Biological Ascension and Psionic Ascension will both be elevated to the level of Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions during 2025. They will not be in the same release, as they are too different from each other. (Cybernetic and Synthetic Ascensions shared more common themes.) I didn't want Psionics to be left behind for another year though. It's in a better state overall than Biological Ascension, so would have been a lower priority.



They're both already well in development, we've been reading threads about them for a long, long time. The feedback threads will mostly affect the Custodian team's efforts though might tweak some things the expansion team is working on.

The expansion team works on very long timelines.

Honestly, really happy to read this. I would love for Psionic ascension be more than just a regularly scheduled gambling session with the Shroud throughout the rest of the game.

 

[Psykhes]

I generally prefer dropping bits of information and letting you infer things from them, but I'll state it outright:
...

That is good to hear.

However, are there any plans for reworking Storms (even if only by the Custodians "sometime")?

Because honestly that is also the only DLC I disable. I like planetscrapers, but due to storms even happening in the late game if I disable them and the 2 then even more useless progenitors that is a easy sacrifice for not having that particular headache.

 

[Nakkivene]

To me the stand-out feature of Psionic now is the crisis thing, which is why I'm going for it lately. Not for power but something cool to do. Well it has plenty of cool, which is nice, power maybe lagging behind. Genetics kinda lacks both?

Storms just shouldn't cause devastation outside of perhaps Nexus storm. Like you build your anti-storm building everywhere which gives dumb clerk jobs and it's basically worthless as the storm maluses themselves aren't the problem but the devastation is. The maluses could even be harsher without devastation.

 

[Thiend]

Glad to hear the confirmation. Still, I prefer if there would be a band-aid patch for a smooth transition.

It depends how early in 2025 it is. If the first two DLCs are genetic and then psionic updates, I would prefer they do more QA on those and leave it as it is. If one of them is in Q4 2025, I'd really like a slapped together "better but we're not done" fix, like just removing some of the more irritating psionic issues such as the forced removal of locked civics.

Or, per my effectively-bricked UoR game I was playing while writing that post, the fact that the Chosen One event murdered my Luminary... that actually happened after I made this thread, it was a good game until then.

 

[Troyen]

Well, we've heard that Q1 2025's release is actually just going to be an open beta. Q2 is likely the first chance for a major DLC. I think that means Psionic is coming late 2025.

 

[LiZinckle]

It depends how early in 2025 it is. If the first two DLCs are genetic and then psionic updates, I would prefer they do more QA on those and leave it as it is. If one of them is in Q4 2025, I'd really like a slapped together "better but we're not done" fix, like just removing some of the more irritating psionic issues such as the forced removal of locked civics.

I hope they can release it sooner. Naturally, the later they postponed the update, the more I would expect from them. After all, it is not very fun to have features, quite significant ones even, that I bought with money soft-locked in the meantime; bad choice is not a choice in strategy game at all.

Besides, some RNG features clearly need to be more rewarding when clearly the best it can offer is disappointing. I would be acceptable if the overhaul coms late, because it has been the most event-intense ascension path from the Utopia, but that is personal opinion.

 

[A2ch0n]

I generally prefer dropping bits of information and letting you infer things from them, but I'll state it outright

If you're willing to answer questions, what about espionage changes? I asked about this again and again and i actually feeling ignored about this topic. And it's not just me, others asked too. Would you give us at least a small hint?

 

[Nakkivene]

If you're willing to answer questions, what about espionage changes? I asked about this again and again and i actually feeling ignored about this topic. And it's not just me, others asked too. Would you give us at least a small hint?

One can always hope. But I wouldn't have even a suggestion... I can't think of a single game where espionage is fun and engaging.

 

[Thiend]

One can always hope. But I wouldn't have even a suggestion... I can't think of a single game where espionage is fun and engaging.

To be perfectly honest, I think even adding espionage was the mistake. They listened to people who wanted it and probably shouldn't have, because if espionage is more than a footnote in the hands of a player it's intolerable for everyone who can be a target, namely the player. "My secret project destroyed my enemy" only sounds awesome until it becomes "my enemy's secret project destroyed me."

It's similar to how I hope they don't make an internal politics DLC. It isn't good for a full feature and if they make it the center of a DLC, it has to be and will be too late to change their mind. Kind of like... Cosmic Storms. Espionage wasn't the central feature of its DLC, so it can stay this way unless and until they have a good implementation.