Rene of Anjou, King of Sicily

[Uber_Barleyman]

At the start of the game the ruler of Provence is Rene, the son of Louis II of Naples.

Joanna I Queen of Naples willed the kingdom of Naples to Louis I. The attempts of the Angevin house to enforce their claims over the Kingdom of Naples would continue with Louis II, Louis III, and finally with Rene. Joanna II once again willed the Kingdom of Naples to the Angevin house in the form of Louis III. Louis III died prematurely and Rene inherited his claim.

In the game France gets the claim on Naples and Sicily via event. I don't have any problem with that. However, Provence should get an event or mission which gives them "Reestablish the Union" CB on Naples, or gives them claims similar to the claims which France gets.

At the start of the game the attempts of the Counts of Provence to regain the throne of Naples would have been recent events well within living memory. It makes sense for Provence to have some flavor reflecting their long standing claims to southern Italy. Especially considering the number of military campaigns they launched in the pursuit of that throne.

The Counts of Provence called themselves Kings of Sicily first and foremost for generations. I would be delighted if Provence had the option to form the Kingdoms of Naples or Sicily via decision and switch to Italian culture. They would be in a very good position for forming a powerful Italy.

Being Kings of Sicily the Angevin house of Provence also claimed the title of King of Jerusalem, a mission to retake Jerusalem might be flavorful as well, assuming they can get Southern Italy under control.

 

[Twoflower]

It would be awesome to have more flavour for René of Anjou. Since he had lost the Kingdom of Naples only in 1442 - two years before game start - it would make sense to actually have Provence begin with a restore union CB on Naples in 1444.

Also, it is likewise quite weird that France's inheritance of Anjou event gives France claims all over South Italy rather than the option to contest Aragon's personal union with Naples.
Charles VIII and Louis XII did not try to grab a few Napolitan provinces, they thought that the Napolitan throne was theirs, based on the Anjou claim that they had inherited from René. In game terms, this would be much better represented by a restore union CB.
A restore union CB, of course, might make it somewhat easier for France to get the whole Kingdom of Naples, but they did come pretty close historically twice.
This might actually be a nice incentive to start something close to the historical Italian Wars.

EDIT: It might also be interesting to have an event chain representing the offer of the Aragonese throne to René by the Consell of the Principality of Catalunya (or, more to the point, to include that in a larger chain of events/disaster for the Aragonese civil war of the 1460s.

 

[Uber_Barleyman]

There is certainly an opportunity for MUCH more flavor here.

 

[Trin Tragula]

I am pretty fond of Good King Rene myself I would not rule out more flavor in the future

 

[bigaristotel]

IIRC France doesn't get claims on Naples if you play as a France. You get that event if you play as Naples

 

[Twoflower]

IIRC France doesn't get claims on Naples if you play as a France. You get that event if you play as Naples

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/French_events#The_Anjou_Claims_to_the_Kingdom_of_Naples

(not at home, so I can't confirm if that event is still the same in 1.22; when last I played France - which was a few patches ago, maybe 1.17 or 1.18 - you definitely could trigger that event to get claims on all of Naples and Sicily).

 

[Count_of_Ljubljana]

Also, as I commented some weeks ago, Malta needs a Neapolitan core!

 

[Hastu Neon]

... and - why not? - a claim or a mission on the Ionian Islands to contend them to Venice or OE.
For this reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Palatine_of_Cephalonia_and_Zakynthos

... And some flavour on the alliance with Skandenberg plus the possibility for King Alfonso to succeed the last heirless Visconti in Milan (in case of alliance, RM and very good relations) or at least an succession war with the Emperor or France...

 

[HRErceg]

But the problem is the abnormal strenght of the French, that would mean that Naples would almost certainly be French in every game

 

[Twoflower]

But the problem is the abnormal strenght of the French, that would mean that Naples would almost certainly be French in every game

Since you do not see France owning the Napolitan provinces (that they get a claim on by the event as it is now) in that many games, I would hardly say that is likely.
The event isn't that certain to fire in the first place, and since the war goal is Naples, they would (unless they manage to gain access through all of Italy) have to pull off a naval invasion, which is never an easy task for the AI (and AI France will usually have less galleys than Aragon and Naples).

I think the PU with Naples would be a fun thing to do as a French player - certainly more interesting than the claims - and a cool accomplishment for AI France.

 

[HRErceg]

@Twoflower What I'm saying is if it's goal is to take away Naples from Aragon, France would easily invade and easily beat Aragon which would mean that they would instantly give the throne of Naples to France, no invasions on Naples needed. The game doesn't take in how decentralized France actually was unlike Aragon which was pretty centralized so the king didn't have to beg the nobles as much for troops to further his own claim.

 

[Count_of_Ljubljana]

Well maybe taking the PU claim gives tax penalties and decreased nobility loyalty...

 

[Twoflower]

@Twoflower What I'm saying is if it's goal is to take away Naples from Aragon, France would easily invade and easily beat Aragon which would mean that they would instantly give the throne of Naples to France, no invasions on Naples needed. The game doesn't take in how decentralized France actually was unlike Aragon which was pretty centralized so the king didn't have to beg the nobles as much for troops to further his own claim.

The thing is that France only gets the event if Provence doesn't exist, and (when that condition is fulfilled) with a MTTH of 300 months. I.e. the event will (if at all) only fire 20-30 years after Provence is annexed. At that point, there is a good chance of Naples and Aragon being in personal union with Castile.
Also, I might be wrong about that, but I think the restoration of union Cb requires control of the capital of the country that you want to obtain a union with - if that is correct, the wargoal in a restoration of union war over Naples is the Napoli province, and therefore France can hardly obtain the warscore needed to enforce a union with Naples by occupying provinces in Iberia. But again, I might be wrong about that.

 

[Twoflower]

The main point here, however, is logic. It doesn't make much sense for an event that represents France's claim on the Napolitan throne to give claims on the individual provinces, because France's goal in pushing the claim is to obtain the kingdom (i.e. enforce a personal union), not conquering individual territories.

 

[Hastu Neon]

Probably another way to improve the whole thing is to have - when Rene dies - an event to Provence, which gives the new duke a Restore PU CB against France, or in case he is weak, poor or feeble the claim can be passed over to France...