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Tavior

Tavior

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http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?=37&t=43143&start=30#p483203

Mecron said:
Sorry...I thought I made this prefectly clear...but obviously not. It does not matter what OPINION anyone has about AI info cheating...Kerberos games will not do it. Thats really all there is to it. next AI topic :p
Click to expand...

If you do indeed not use any form of cheating for AI then how is it possible that if I took a fleet. Then fly in a random direction outside the solar system without retreating. Then the AI can manage to find me within 3 min*? If the position were reverse how would you find an AI starship out in deep space?

I can think of ONLY one work around which is limited to one faction which is the Listener bridge on Loa starships. It give a "pings" revealing starships very far outside the sensor range.

Please for love of god don't give me bullshit about starship being bright in deep space thank. I know it is really unlikely that a starship under AI control will go past the oort cloud but it doesn't stop me from using impactor round to push them there.


*I am talking about this bug topic on paradox forum board I posted awhile ago.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?656531-Enemy-ship-following-in-a-beeline-for-me-despite-being-outside-of-sensor-range
 
I have deleted all the off-topic posts in the thread (including my own). I know there was some on-topic stuff in there, I apologize for that.

Let's try this whole discussion again and keep any moderation related talks to PM from now.
 
As an experiment, could you try this? Like... you just head in a beeline to deep space, right? So logically thinking, the enemy just follows that same straight line... that's where I'd first look if someone was running from me. So what happens if you head to deep space straight, then once there, suddenly turn 90° to either side and go that way. Does the AI still find you?

Another explanation could be, though this is a tad forced, that planets actually have scanning capability for several lightyears beyond their system; you see this in strategic view. So really, just because you exited the star system doesn't make you invisible, it just means those precise "he's in that little square" sensors don't really work anymore.
 
Be aware that the "FASTER" you go (as in put all power to engines) the LOUDER you are and the EASIER you are to see on sensors, if you want to "Sneak" away, go slow, as in half speed.

Good point by Ulz, how come you can see the AI but expect the AI not to see you?

Be aware as well that when you are in an enemy or neutral system, you "color" or if you like "discolor" a sector giving the Player (and AI) a clue as to where you "last" were.

Anyway, still don't see any proof. It "may" be a bug, but that hasn't been proven either bug nor cheat so far. More data, less feelings/guesses, you may be right, but only in a possible bug. But so far nothing there to indicate either.
 
You have to remember that at the beginning of the tactical battle AI doesn't know what you plan to do.

Also when tactical battle begins I set it to half speed and nobody can see me without me seeing them. Assuming that everyone has the same sensor range starships-wise. Since I didn't approach any planet then it is safe to say I would have seen missiles as soon they did see me.

It doesn't matter if I set it to normal or 1.5 speed, the one in bug forum was 1x normal speed all the way, they still find me. What I do is not fly in a "beeline" but change direction slightly few time and they still find me. Don't forget that if you are not "in-combat" then your starship fly in acceleration time. I suppose the AI does as well.

I also notice that when I leave the solar system proper the AI doesn't bother with retaking the section that I still control when I arrived. I think that is significance because if I didn't know where the enemy starships I would try to limit how many section they control as possible but they didn't even touch it. Which is a strong indicator that AI is somehow getting information on my fleet location without attempting to retake the section or confirm that I did not left behind a sole starship to backtrack and blow their planet up. This make the tactical AI far too easy to "game" or tricked.

It is also safe to say deep outer space do NOT have any way for normal player to receive hint as to enemy's position that I am aware. Listener bridge for Loa starships is perhaps the only way I know of to find anyone out there irregardless of if they are AI or player.
 
So I'd advise against assuming at any point that the tactical AI is doing the smart thing. My understanding is that they're going to be doing a bunch of work on the tactical AI once the strategic pass is in.

I don't think everyone's sensor ranges are necessarily the same...especially if you didn't have deep scans they might have longer vision than you do. If they spotted you they would start launching planet missiles, though you wouldn't see them coming for quite some time since they'd be slowly flying from way outside your detection radius.
 
The point of tactical common sensible actions for AI is not really the main point of this topic. Although it can produce undesirable behavior as a side result.

Ulzgoroth did you really read my game setup information? Let me restate it here. Turn 5, no redesign on my part, no free tech so everyone start without deep scan, normal 100 percent econ/research speed, and strike mission with 1st survey fleet with surprise war declare to initiate combat. There is no way the AI could have gotten deep scan barely 5 turns in let alone prototype one. Although I suspect that there is not much "racial" difference concerning sensor range comparing on a one by one basis.

As for the planet missiles they would have show up as red point flying in an arc in the sensor view. It is almost completely invisible when you are using tactical view. I have been in situation where I put my LV on 1.5 * speed. I had missile from planet and my own IOBM missile still visible on sensor view despite the horrible sensor coverage. There was no battlerider out or any other escort, cruiser/DN/etc..., just the LV itself all alone. The heavy IOBM has an extreme long range and you can easily test this against a planet because it is always visible and you don't have to get too close to fire off few volley.
 
I was talking with some people who share my point of view. Apparently people within the SotS 2 community are confused on two subjects.

The first thing is I am saying that AI has somehow access to extra info that is not available to players via sensor view. It is by this definition that I consider the AI to act like it is cheating, Not actual cheating, and it might just be not meant to have this extra info if Mecron Post is honest.

Second thing, Apparently people are confused by what I meant by exact location. The outer sector nearest to the fleet "convert" to your color but it doesn't tell you how far away your fleet are to the AI. In my test game I did NOT fly in a straight line. It was more like a snake with angle as much 3 degree change in direction in a left to right to left fashion. There was no way the AI knew how far I was going away from outer sector or even the exact path.

Would making a youtube video demonstration the behavior settle the debate for once for all?
 
I finally found a way to record. My phone's camera wasn't good enough to see the contrast between red dots and a big blue background. Also, I had to reduce frap's load on the system so it wouldn't stutter as badly.

Here is the link "http://youtu.be/fhp6hwdUz7s". Ugh the video is somewhat low in detail and I am not sure how to make the quality better. Let me know if there is any trick to it.

From the Hiver's perspective(AI): They have Command/Supply/Armor as part of survey 1st fleet. All are fusion/either hammerhead or standard bridge (No deep space scan). As for tech research all they have manage to do so far is to research reflective coating up to 89 percent. Nothing in PSI or C3 tree that would have give them extra info that Human players don't have. All of this info was obtain from the pre-combat autosave before initiating the combat by taking over AI slot.
 
Far as I can see, you just zig-zagged your fleet a little, but generally kept going straight. Instead, I'd like to see you go straight out into deep space, then take a sharp turn to the side and keep going that way. See if that makes a difference.
 
I created the prefect example video that shows missile firing when they see me. I did not change anything from the last video except I had to create a new game and boosted my baseline speed close to 3x to what it was before (Easier to show by staying out of sensor range).

If the AI are not firing anything then assume they can't see me. Yet many time they seem to blitz straight to my fleet despite having flipped 6-7 sectors that I could have hide in. Keep in mind I don't know what I did to make the AI "stunned" mostly at the beginning and I had to poke them to pull them out of their state.

Well the video quality is still bit ugly but at least you can go 1080. I recommend going 720HD to make it easier on your eye.

http://youtu.be/LYTOLVHFPwA
 
* Deleted *

This is a forum for discussing the game - Sword of the Stars 2, not the issues experienced in other forums. Mention of happenings/decisions made in those forums should be avoided in future threads.

 
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* Deleted *

This is a forum for discussing the game - Sword of the Stars 2, not the issues experienced in other forums. Mention of happenings/decisions made in those forums should be avoided in future threads.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
* Deleted *

This is a forum for discussing the game - Sword of the Stars 2, not the issues experienced in other forums. Mention of happenings/decisions made in those forums should be avoided in future threads.
 
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