Report from the Low Help Pirate Haven Virtuality front

[mrt1212]

So I am back on my shit again figuring out a Virtuality Void Forged Pirate Haven after getting some of the hang of it to bring a contender to the table by reflex. I can forgo everything I can think of but Vassals and Ecus at this point.

Basic conceits are No Federation, No Vassals, No Cosmogensis, No Ringworlds or Ecus. Yes Merc Enclaves, Yes Branch Offices, Yes Secret Fealties to Liberate Other's Vassals, Yes Diplomatic Agreements.

if you know the spec, and remember my 3.11 Lets Play that did this with Lithoids, then theres low help from Civics that have to be Criminal Syndicate and Letters of Marque to be a Pirate Haven, but it is surmountable with Alloys and Unity and Naval Cap. After 3rd Civic, Refurbishment can be a big help and is very fluff congruent.

So hows that going with Virtuality now?

Well...

Its proving a little more difficult than the Lithoid Cousins and my theory on why comes down to

1. Vassals being zero sum. If they arent yours there somebody elses. Under the Virtuality Regime, its actually a worse choice of how you wanna take your lumps on this at the half way point and beyond because

If you conquer territory and zero out the planets with Server Shutdown, youve preserved the output of your domestic economy but forgone the opportunity of even branch offices to recoup. So conquering is lesser in that you cant make use of the windfall of a fully working planet youve taken over to shore up the ledger after retrofitting it, and only take station and structure. It simply zero sums opportunity for all. You dont get to maximize it but nobody else does either.

If you do leave them as free floating indies (or release as such) its a matter of time before they get vassalized or federate (or get conquered) and now have points on the board over you that are really hard to make up elsewhere for you. You arent getting them from Population, Vassals, Fed, mostly just Economy and Tech.

This impacts something way down the road which is Naval Cap, and so far against 10x Crisis (Contingency when I got there with some confidence) being short on tech and ships for it. Turns out I way underestimated my fitness and got smacked around (half my own damn fault in the tactical execution and taking out one multi million fleet only to walk right into another one in the next system over a week later and lose all my fleets). Under Virtuality, your conquered gains arent getting a fortress plowing to provide supplementary compliment to your Pirate Haven holdings.

2. Ecus are hard to give up purely because pound for pound, theyre the best and the conceit of Virtuality isnt allowing you marginal Alloy output gains with more planets. Plus theyre slightly more common than ringworlds, going the found ringworld route or waiting until you can build them. Unlike the Lithoid Cousin, if you have to use MegaStructures to provide domestic economy income, then research matters and thats now a function of finding systems with 3+ science orbitals and illicit research labs. Or systems with stations en masse. No help from Vassals here.

So Ecus rule the roost and are hard to forgo just because you arent getting anything better than that through habitats alone, and as pirates who cant federate or vassalize, you need alloys like whoa.

3.11 Lithoids not even using Research Districts or Lab Buildings worked out without finishing MegaStructures or Ascention Theory even researched precisely because 11000 Naval Cap with FE tech just plain works the way 6000 doesnt for a Crisis.


3. Points and other points.

The way I fended off everyone else once I got on top in that 3.11 Lithoid run was by becoming Galactic Emperor and basically depriving all of their vassals. This is likely still the play with Virtuality now but...

Population points are impacted now.
Tech is dependent on board RNG giving systems with science orbitals, and/or you gotta go get those after popping Virtuality to generate a tech pace to unlock MegaStructures with any time relevancy.

Virtuality is dope and its own gimmick, but without a signifcant sweetner that others use without second thought, is actually going to be hobbled and lesser at point of Crisis for hitting a limit that isnt easily overcome eadily. Branch Offices do provide a ton but for a spec and experience that demands you take others out to have winning points, it creates aching dilemma of attacking initiative, where you simply cant in some cases without losing a signifcant share of Naval Cap and income, against opponent topping the board.

Just a report, like ill get this figured eventually and come out on top, no need for changes to the game. However, i think it is proving useful to go to a lower limit and see how a thing works rather than do obvious things that are good and then refigure the game or mechanic entirely. I get sick of all this commentary thats basically starts with all the best pieces in a row on purpose, that then thinks it has anything to say about a gimmick, but is just remphasizing best pieces being best pieces now shown off in the gimmick. Even as Virtuality is OP in a few ways, its not proving such without some other powerful gimmick to leverage it, at least with Pirates.

 

[mrt1212]

Update with a few more playthroughs to 2350 over a long long weekend:

1. There are not nearly enough 3+ Science Orbital systems nor 18+ Orbital Systems out there to push output beyond modifiers after the 1st half of the game. One 3+ Science Orbital system is almost always available in your home sector but beyond that, you gotta search and search and search and even if you go a 'explore everything you can and go nuts trying to take territory with stacked modifiers to Starbase Outpost costs' regime, you still can whiff on good beefy systems even existing. Research matters for getting to some key unlocks and splitting function between Habitats is okay for one or two, but ideally I'd have:

Unity Capital, 2x Research Habs, 3x Industrial Hab, 1x Mineral Hab all over 18 Orbitals each and fewer deadweight Orbitals (like we aren't building generator districts here, we want the Industrial districts and the building slots). I've not been so lucky and have mostly only had 1 Research Hab and then a few split Research/Industrial/Mining Habs. Converting Mining Districts to Industrial Districts is part of it but the job density of Ring Worlds and Ecus is top shelf.

If I could somehow reliably pop more Science deposits after the fact...that'd be nice.

1a. The crux of the issue in forgoing Ringworlds or Ecus comes down to ECs and CGs. Minerals can be covered a multitude of ways and even a single Mining Habitat that has 3+ Mineral Orbitals can anchor all your needs for the first half of the game. However, to keep pace on tech and blast through Unity the CG charge is extreme and once the Galactic Market is up, you can buy your way out of it a degree but that requires the EC to do so. Ringworlds cover ECs, Ecus CGs. Balancing this against your 5 Merc Enclave fleets pushing 180 Fleet each in an ~2300 ecosystem where you can't Branch Office your way out of it due to competition and borderline untouchable MegaCorp competition in a Fed is tough though. Doable but tough.

2. The Empire type that starts out as a Federation is such a pain in the ass if they're you're closest neighbor in larger Diplomilitary Picture, and they have designs on subjugating a MegaCorp neighbor. Yes, you can box out the competition and keep em boxed out of the Federation Partners with an early enough drop, but you can't really solve them for any amount of time in the early half of the game because

A. They are too far away to make more than 1 claim and getting there takes years or isn't even possible to get there without another war against the roadblock. Doable unless you have Branch Offices on the roadblock.
B. The Federation is tight and with No Scaling are militarily unassailable for the first 50 years, and even then might be the first reasonable empires to put branch offices on, so you might not be able to get at them without Support Independence shenanigans later. Yes, if you can't kill the competition, you have to trick them into fighting themselves out of existence or help them win and then kill them yourself.
C. Might be irrelevant and otherwise NOT worth bothering with except for their contribution to Victory Points in Federation or as Vassal so even if you free them, they still might join the Federation or be part of it after liberation. And now it isn't a 'fair fight', heh heh heh.

Tidbits:

1. Not settling everything and leaving unsurveyed terrain is dope actually. Say what you will but once other empires hit their reach they will still survey systems out there and that means you can pick up additional Archeological sites behind your own territory that they can't settle. I wish this led to more relic chance and more minor relic deposits but it's an unsung accidental bonus to beelining to border and getting around to settling with an outpost - other empires will reveal sites only you could settle and dig.

2. Virtuality can be unlocked with mostly your HQ before 2240 and fully functional by 2250 (pushing Temples and mostly Temples on top of Trade->Marketplace) and the window during the Synth Age situation is prime time to do your first ascensions. Yes, you can store a nut to put on your first two Virtuality sub traditions but with fewer Habs and lower sprawl before the Virtual Pops hit, you can mostly get all your habs to Tier 1 and then go from there as needed. I'm pretty sure if I took it easier on growing up after Virtuality, I could do even better on Ascending them as I go, but it's just really hard to resist blasting out Alloys for a spec that needs em to get their Merc Enclaves up and beefy. Unlike the wider Lithoids, you're not dropping a ton of Alloys on new habitats after the first 6 buuut, you still have your needs.

3. I really am enjoying trying to crack this nut but I am afraid that most of it is eventually to succumb to Galactic Emperor just to break up Feds in a 30 AI Empire start. Trying to think of what 'Low Help' means in concept, this is actually a 'Big Help' to solve the unsolvable at some late point if you need it. It's just extremely difficult to have the horses to fight that many wars in that amount of time with the contortion of your own Branch Offices precluding fights if there's 3 Federations on the board. I'm trying a more Diplomacy forward run now because it was kind of crucial for staying clean, saving on Influence and I'm in an interesting spot in 2313 with Khan riding hard across the cosmos and making for some easier fights after but I think the relationships are what drives the difficulty - those damn Vassal and Fed points are unparalleled at a certain point so peeling them off or preventing them at all IS a huge part of the spec. This is parochial if you do it yourself either way, it's astounding how much more smoothly the playthrough is taking either. Game Grease indeed.

4. Multiple wars at once makes releasing independents after conquering difficult and luckily you can Server Shutdown your way out of Domestic Economy peril buuuut

Resettling abandoned planets sucks, and if you dont have any way to get rid of Biologicals like Cosmo or Death Cult, the order of the day is to Server Shutdown, wait until war ends, resettle with a Biological you stowed or bought off market for the purpose, then release. Havent done it that way.

Small indies are really so much better so long as they remain indies. Having control points that enemy attackers can't go deeper into because the small indie is on decent enough relations with the enemy is a good thing, in addition to the Branch Office benefit above all else.

 

[mrt1212]

Weekend Playthrough Update

Finally getting it dialed in and knocking out all Traditions by 2300 and making better moves diplomilitarily and here's the deal:

1. The pace of the first pre-Synth Age Traditions is mostly the same but the trick of busting all of them out after selecting Virtuality is a matter of keeping sprawl low and Unity production up up up. Going over 4 habs before Synth Age slows the pace down because it's really really difficult without any Biological influx of residents to get a proper Unity output going over sprawl in that situation. Keeping it pretty tight and light pre Synth Age and then building INTO it as you go worked a wonder in shaving time off completion of all Traditions. I had a prior playthrough where I absolutely shredded Traditions after Virtuality and wanted figure out why that happened and it is keeping sprawl tighter by simply not pushing settlements beyond their absolute basic needs and contributions, to the point of not spinning up excessive ones. Just enough to produce Unity and be happy.

Remember that you lose your ability to resettle Virtuality pops even before you complete the tree and the Server Shutdown only is allowed after completing the tree, so if you overdo it in settlements you can wind up impaired without even really realizing it - those contributions to Sprawl in a MegaCorp are WAY harsher, like another Habitat does matter especially with Pops that aren't producing Unity and being happy.

In the most successful test, without any help from Minor Relics towards Celebrate Diversity and Proclaim Religious Revelation, it was a matter of less than 4 Habitats, mix of Temples and Commercial Complexes, hitting Evolving Society's Agenda stroke through the Synthetic Age situation, then knocking out 2 sub traditions upon completion (Instead of Ascending during the Synth Age process, I banked all the Unity instead to apply and it was 2.85 Sub Traditions) to set up a 6 month wait for the 3rd sub tradition that opens up the Virtuality Policy, which is then set to Unity. Only after this point did I expand to my 5th, 6th and then 7th Habitat. Building Slots were Monument->Temple->Commercial Complex->Precinct House (the Crime Spike is hilarious with Virtuality), and developing Orbitals to unlock slots. Standard 1 Habitation District, 1 Industrial, 1 Purpose (mostly Research but one Mineral Habitat for sure until Arc Furnace and territorial gains kick in. And some Chthonian Cheese here and there, like one or two of those systems will fix you right up in a way that makes the Matter Decompressor less of the thing to have, but you still want one eventually.)

Commerce Complexes did good lifting here because it has a lower CG load per job plus better Amenities, plus the Trade Value converted ECs so instead of being sick to my stomach with CG debt, it went a lot smoother and there was less struggle having the ECs to cover foibles and pay Mercs.

No fancy tricks, Civic relief, Origin leg up, or anything like that, just straight bombing Unity from a tight position and not overdoing it with expansion.

2. Isolationist neighbors that don't like anyone and merely tolerate you are a godsend. They aren't going to Federate, they will have trouble taking vassals (since they would be targets often have Defensive Pacts of Guarantees), they can fend off attackers and even attack others and do so but they're basically going to be stable lumps. Stable lumps that never get too big and powerful and can safely take your Branch Offices without creating a headache later on. Raids to keep them clean if they suffer an attack - yes and hopefully your Branch Office portfolio doesn't get in the way of 3rd party defense.

Now bad neighbors that will attack you and everyone if they can help it suck, and there's nothing to do really about that with GA No Scaling DAAM On for the first 40 or so years - if you get rolled you get rolled and a couple defensive pacts can help but sometimes not. Stupid Fanatical Purifiers, sheesh. I wish I had more tricks for that but if it isn't to be it isn't to be given the settings and spec.

But all these happy go lucky Xenos that wanna be friends and grow the Federation suck worse for all the complications they cause while running away with the game on points. At least with Fanatical Purifiers, if they start yonder, you can make a big play for them when they are on the wrong side of their territory conquering somebody else, but these Federinos are tougher on scoreboard without trickery if they get to a mature state with Vassals. And just more damn annoying once mature and have all the wormholes and gates and all that jazz up and running.

3. Micro Indies are good if you can swing them and I finally started being able to swing them. The nice thing about taking a settlement is you can build colony ships with those pops and then A. Shut down the Server if in the midst of the war or B. Make into vassal and release as indie AFTER putting a Branch Office down on them. Once the colony ships are in progress, the shut down doesn't stop them. If able, always make a physical 'backup', LMAO, Virtuality you goofball ass Ascension.

Starting a new colony from scratch means it'll take time for them to grow to get your first Holding Slot on the Branch Office buuut It's mostly an issue of having the gap in wars to do it. No gap, no ability to release Vassals, no ability to seed the Galaxy with micro nations, no ability to recoup more on your territorial gains. I haven't seen them get stomped with a guarantee of independence provided by me, and in one case, two of them as neighbors formed a Federation. I was dubious cause that seems more fragile than me protecting either, but they weren't getting points ahead of me from it. Whatever, I'll raid their attacker if it comes to that.

Mind, I am creating these Micro Indies fully inside my own territory away from others and only next to one another if anyone at all. I do not want them anywhere near the other major players, no effing way. And I am still getting the occasional Criminal Syndicate to spawn from it which is the worst and the only real resolve is to kill them ASAP.

4. Enmity and Galactic Force Projection are the Influence Pumps that make this whole damn thing go and I really don't wanna think about how to make my Pirate Thing go without either. Mutual Rivalries are one of the best relation changers and Enmity gives you that ability to just point at someone and go 'Rival!' and that's all there is to it. Unfortunately, this is somewhat short lived if you hit the Power Spike in all the ways and are off to the races because you'll wind up with a bunch of Pathetic comps in Fleets and Economy, but its a huge help in getting through your Power Spike and providing all the benefits on knocking another down to climb up on them.

5. Research still matters a ton because you need Mega Structures and Ambitions and neither is reliable and both are wildly expensive. Ambitions, specifically Will to Power and A Grand Fleet should kick in at the moment you are starting to lose Rivals due to being so stronk. Well, a lot of previous attempts and playthroughs mostly struggled with Research but I had a lucky break in this most recent one where I found 2 additional systems with 3+ Science Orbital spots PLUS I kitted out my HQ with Research Districts to their limit, and it basically took care of itself. But I had to overemphasize Research in a way I was kind of dubious on and also get lucky.

When I say struggled, that doesn't mean way behind but not getting the 3rd Civic before 2280 (Naval Contractors in my case always to get more Merc Enclaves which always turns to Refurbishment Division to gain ships and alloys in 20 years and usually lines up with Security Contractors being passed right around then given Galactic Market and the first Naval Cap increase measures usually being first and second in a lot of playthroughs), getting either Ambitions or Mega Structures unlocked before 2350, getting Focused Arc Emitters, getting Titans, all this extremely good stuff that comes later and makes a profound difference if you have them over your peers. In the 3.11 Lithoid iteration, the Arc Emitters and Titans were the last important techs I researched because it was so thick with ships and so bad at research (on purpose mind, but still, the sensitivity to tech is related to how much you can't make up for it with the girth of an armada or habitats everywhere).

And get kinda ethically dubious. I happened across Sol. Sol had a Pre-FTL Civ. Sol had nuclear weapons. Sol got no intervention and blew themselves up real good and then Sol was mine to exploit. I rarely ever allow that to happen but Sol is a great system. The other major system that uncorked this playthrough had 4 anomalies, 3 of which converted to Science Orbitals. This was in addition to the standard 4 Science System you start near that's supposed to be there. At 2350 now and punching out 6k per month in total with about 1/8th coming from Illicit Research Labs.

Oh yeah, that's the first Branch Office Holding in my routine. Early game, they will pull you along as you need to be while shirking the districts, and after you get the districts up and full of poindexters, it's still complimentary. Eventually phased out for Pirate Haven holdings, but kind of an essential part to getting places early.

6. Starting in a Nebula or just nearby is so good for the unique Starbase refinery. Basically relieves you of mineral woes very early on if you can set up a more than a handful. I kinda wish there was a way to chart factors of success because I think this is an unsung hero that doesn't get enough notice but its so nice to start in or near a Nebula just to scoop up this nifty bonus and freeing up your other districts to be used faster.

I think I am getting the hang of it finally to render this midgame by reflex, but neighbor RNG and system RNG loom heavier and complicate things a ton. Gonna see if I can take this one to the finish without becoming Emperor for the win since I am blasting through this one and climbing up the board.

 

[mrt1212]

Overnight Breakout Report:

In addition to Secret Fealty Alleigence Wars and Support Independence to bust up a Fed from the inside, Guarantee Independence is a 3rd and sometimes better option.

Long story short, eliminated the other MegaCorp who had a vassal (I took one war to take their HQ, then another to take the rest), guaranteed the freed vassal, federation tries to overlord the freed vassal, I have a war on my hands, a great game tilting war. The dead megacorp was sandwiched between the fed partners. This kicked off with my whole Armada there, right in the middle. Its a defensive war so claims are cheap. The freed vassal had something like 17 claims so its going to take a long time to resolve. Im generating 10 Influence a month and have one fed partner fully claimed out and conquered, will get the other one like that before wars end.

FWIW, I couldn't directly attack the Fed because I had my early Branch Office portfolio on a Vassal that was part of it. I was worried about this a ton as potentially intractable. It wasn't thanks to constantly watching for the underdogs and vassals in the war and peace notifications

So once again, the Diplomilitary game pays off with right place, right time, right people, after taking care of neccesary business. Keep an eye out for these opportunities. 25 years to eliminate a mechanical rival and two points rivals aint too shabby. I am going to need to backfill branch offices majorly when all the dust is settled, convert all the Illicit Labs to Pirate Havens for a cool 500 in Naval Cap, but for now it's claiming out everything I can in the current war, then setting up the claims on the next Federations HQs for Raids to kick it all off, then backfilling Branch Offices and Small Indies in empty systems off the hyperlane highways.

oh, I wanted to talk about The Efficiency Method of Conquering - only bother with claiming settlements and anything 2 hops on a border to prevent ugly border gore and also let the AI find more archeological sites in the unsurveyed parts after winning. If you have any Outpost cost reduction (I always do), settle good stuff after. It usually works out that claims are more expensive at a certain point than outposting after conquering. Also, with Pirate Haven, If you lack the Plunder CB, that means you claimed all settlements and are green light to go get it.

 

[mrt1212]

Getting closer, but still not ready for 10x Crisis, shoot.

Had a good playthrough going but it kind of stalled with limited warmaking capability due to diplomatic situations and running out of economic steam (7600/7400 Naval Cap at Crisis Spawn @~ 3.6M total across 4 Armadas), War in Heaven kicked off and I thought I'd be slick and fluff congruent and not participate, was getting ready to eliminate another MegaCorp that also opted out - 10x Unbidden spawns in my HQ system. A way more hardcore player might try to rescue that one by retreating to the L-Gate, rebuilding Habs there as best as possible, but I was done at that point because -

Never got into the top 5 on scoreboard, top spot was a 3 vassal neighbor I hammered hard with branch offices early and thusly couldn't attack and their vassals weren't revolting or interested in it despite support. 2nd was a Fed with Vassals. If the Crisis had spawned anywhere else I might have had a shot in getting Crisis Ship points and letting it ride longer than I otherwise would be comfy with, and eventually sending them back to hell but no, on top my HQ and immediately taking out 2 other of my others and necessitating a hardcore response Im not up for.

I am trying an Auth/Phile instead of Spiritual run now and it's 10 years slower popping Virtuality, and Individual Machines can't make loot from kidnapping robots and selling them so one of my bright ideas to get over the economic gap won't work. Biological Auth/Philes can make bots into slaves and sell them. Thats a bummer.

One thing I might have to bite the bullet on is Conquering Ahead of Branch Offices To Create Branch Offices, just so that I am not so limited in attacking who I need to, to get on top of the board and stay up there. It's so ponderous though with GA, No Scaling DAAM though, like very few good pre 2250 opportunities and better ones finally showing themselves around 2275 and later when rivalries and whatnot are really cooking and you can team up with another for a 2 on 1.

Releasing Vassals is crappy for the sheer amount that are subsequently CrimSyns (any pointers on stopping this!?), but at least this method creates dibs on those that arent. The only way I can think kidnapping works here is to get as many pops as possible to dump on a new colony you create yourself or a dinky one you conquered so Ill probably go back to Spiritualist, but no Cosmo and No Corpo Death Cult, no real reason for Auth and Nihilistic Acquisition.


Mildly disappointing that a week's playthrough was still short despite going relatively better, and short with the most painful Crisis spawn point for me as player buuuut...

I think the way through is going to be Conquering forward and doing Branch Offices after that or on lowly vassals that arent in a Federation after the 1st Act and then addressing the economilitary gap where I swear I am short despite topping the field by time Crisis hits.

 

[SAS]

Moved to AAR fourm

 

[mrt1212]

3 Playthroughs and some Tidbits:

1. Trying to hold back on Branch Offices is ridiculously difficult. Two playthroughs basically can't do anything well being short ECs the entire time all in the hopes I'd have a target of opportunity around 2260 and could piggyback a war to get the diplomilitary snowball rolling. I couldnt, twice. And in one case it was the most shambolic death by a thousand defensive pact wars where I did buddy up with one empire who then got hit with 3 wars at once over the course of 5 years. I had a short window to break the Pact before that happened, didn't, and the game went tits up. Even if you will have a headache later by picking the wrong empire to put branch offices on if they Federate, you'll never even get there if you hold back too much and don't set up on a few HQs ASAP and then close the one you want to take.

2. I much prefer building up my HQ with minor Orbitals (cause they're cheaper and faster and still give you the building slots which saves on Sprawl over districts), expanding territory out to find the 19+ Orbital systems, setting up mining stations to keep up resource income, and generally going through the motions of busting out Unity with only one settlement for the first 2 Traditions, then setting up a colony to assist with the last one. The flow of Unity usually gets you through 2 Traditions at a good pace, then there's a cliff for the 3rd while Societal Evolution is on cooldown, then picks up again when you build your 2nd and 3rd colony. Way more resilient and less dependent on luck to find a 19+ Orbital system quickly.

3. 3 Habitats is the right amount for a while. It's mostly the Sprawl hit that makes this so even after finishing the Virtuality Tree. Being able to finish everything by 2255 and then hit your 5th Tradition in less than 10 years (Enmity in this case to maximize Influence for claims and Branch Offices). Trying to get more earlier hurts a lot of development and unless you have the Branch Office income in hand and rocking and rolling, it'll be painful by the time you get to your 7th and last Habitat. Generally, the whole crux of the economic issue playing this style is that each subsequent Habitat is going to be for marginal Alloy gains because each subsequent habitat will impact ECs and CG output (increased pops plus the -25% per colony reduction hits these hardest, it isn't just the -25% per colony that comes into focus. Minerals don't get hit as hard because bar one Habitat, should be covered by Mining Stations and the market as needed, and the general economic policy of militarists favors Metallurgists over Artisans).

4. Too much territory without Hyper Relays is a problem. Two playthroughs that went south had this issue where I expanded too much and then had too much territory end to end to functionally fight wars across it. 3 years to get from end to end just isn't functional especially if you're fighting two different wars against two different sets of enemies on either end. Even being able to go on an adventure to snag a weakling's HQ and then set up claims after proved too much distance pre hyper relay. I was pretty stoked I snuck all that territory in until it proved to stretch me way too thin to fight across. Also, it's just generally better to let two AIs share a border and hate one another rather than sticking your nose between them and being their enemy (or friend with some work). Chokepoints are good, but adding a full year to travel for a superior checkpoint without a good Habitat opportunity in the balance...maybe isn't that good.

5. Relying on Internal/Galactic Market in some parts feels scummy and there's a wrong way to do it, but it works. Generally CGs are always going to be an issue if you're chasing Unity ahead of your ability to pump out CGs, and so the method is to basically buy in bulk to the maximum amount you can purchase at once, 2 months before hitting 0. This way, the price will cool down before you need to make your next bulk purchase and you don't pay higher monthly amount to simply stay in the green with 'cashflow'. You really do need 4-5 Branch Offices on AI HQs to wing it, but if you can wing it, then the market will carry you until Virtuality kicks in fully.

6. I need to be more diplomatically lithe, like, that experience with the Defensive Pacts was a nightmare because the territory was so good and I had Cybrex which even without the Ringworld, is easily one of the best for Pirates that need Alloys. I could have ended it once before it went really bad and didn't, and I don't know why I refused to break it but I should have. On my current playthrough, neighbors basically made it more dangerous to get one since the direct neighbors all loved me from the start with barely any twisting. Simple NAPs will do. I do like Defensive Pacts for the Intel bump and being a safe partner but when that safe partner gets mobbed...you get mobbed and it can be exacerbated by being overgrown without Hyper Relays.

Same deal with Branch Offices. After spending too many playthroughs overdoing Branch Offices only to bind myself Diplomilitarily later, underdoing stinks more, and generally I think my problem is I hate closing Branch Offices if I can avoid it. Well that's way less awful if I only have to close the single one on the HQ to get my war on, so I'm trying to stick with that but the competition impetus looms, especially with another CrimSyn on the board and taking every other spot. Sticking to just HQs works early really well because that's' where most the pops are, you'll get to build a holding immediately, just really good deals. I am not good at this part of deciding, clearly. All or nothing has its warts.

Glad I tried out some other stuff, but its way harder to get off the ground if you over expand territory and habitats before and during Virtuality, and underdo it with the Branch Offices just because the playthrough never materializes the Power Stroke in the same way with the same opportunities and you're just kinda stuck.

 

[mrt1212]

Did it! A lotta crap came together so I could win by a mere 321 points. Will post about it tomorrow but tonight just wanna say the scoring system sucks ass and is super gameable in ways you have to go out of your way to avoid.

But I did it, No Scalimg DAAM 10x Crisis, no vassals, no feds, no cosmo, wasnt emperor, no ring world, no ecus. Vituality worked a charm to let me focus on the parts I like but like ive been saying, it needs something else to be OP, and like branch offices and the market arent it. Tons to love about it, but its like, if you dont combo it with an outstanding good thing it absolutely gets flaccid, and idk about a bandit commune run based on alloys and naval cap which virtuality and branch offices did enough lifting on QED

Anywho, another one done and now for a breather...Its hard to think about augmentation bazaar litoids just cause i dont wanna deal with beaucoup settlements after Virtuality and vassals are dummy good

 

[mrt1212]

Alright, so to start, this was a red carpet rolled out run in all the ways that mattered - Started smack dab in the middle part of the Starburst Galaxy, Nebula nearby, 3 Fanatical Purifiers not next to me, no other Megacorps by the time of the Galactic Community, the Federation Origin with no good neighbors, and a lot of the galaxy that just couldn't get along with one another enough. And it was mostly placid with big time events with no Khan, no War in Heaven (I preempted it after Crisis finished just because I was not up for unpredictable outcomes trying to actually win it), No Grey Tempest, 10x Unbidden that spawned away from me and once again the portal unprotected, so I could really go for it. And go for it I did.

First 60 Years:

Didn't over expand and found a couple of systems that would likely carry me to the end. I had tried expanding vigorously in a few playthroughs just so I could be assured of some 19+ Orbital systems but it caused its own problems pre Hyper Relay in actually being useful, I specced out my HQ to be a Unity Pump to get Virtuality done ASAP. I brought my 2nd hab online in the 2200s, I colonized 3 and 4 right as Virtuality finished, 5 happened before 2280, 6 was conquered, 7 was a resettle after Server Shutdown Conquer, but I abandoned 6 later in the game just because it was a net drag. If the composition of your settlements is better than Habitats (Ecus, its Ecus) then you can probably go to 7 but with only habs, that 7th one feels like a net drag. Just can't make it so good to marginally come out ahead. I didn't get very far out from my Core Sector, like 2 hops max. It was okay though.

Made friends with every neighbor which allowed me to go out beyond their borders and find more empires, eventually trading comms to get the Galactic Community up and running around 2250. I usually try to get as much influence from first contacts as possible but I started secondguessing that potential at one point when I realized I was relying way more on the market with Virtuality to cover Mineral and CG gaps, so getting the Galactic Market was a huge priority.

Settled Branch Offices on all nearby Foreign HQs besides the Federation Origin. Provided all I needed to get started with ECs and I luckily never had to close a single one on that initial local set. Getting your BOs up concurrent with the Galactic Market founding really uncorks the spec at the moment it comes alive with Virtuality.

Founded one Merc Enclave reasonable quick because I saved so much on alloys not expanding and not building Habs and then built it up singularly to provide the best dividends. It really was the hardest one to start and build up besides the last one which was relying on the Galactic Senate to pass the Security Contractors measure. Once Virtuality was done, I whipped them out pretty quickly to have a fighting force and to get the dividends. The Dividends at the top level really scratch every itch I have with - more ships! temporary boosts to research! Influence! (Okay that last one costs a gripload the first couple of times but 100 Influence is 100 Influence).

1 war - I did find a struggle Fanatical Purifier nearby but I had to piggyback another neighbor's war to have a chance and it turned out the distance was too far to actually take a system or two before the neighbor's war ended. There was some small back and forth between the FP and Neighbor but I couldn't get a foothold in time. I wound up getting them a short time later.

Found the Irassian Precursor which was fine. It's a fine precursor and did the trick before my first Mega Shipyard.

Didn't get any relic produce dig sites which put a crimp in creaming Virtuality unlock. Proclaim Revelation and Celebrate Diversity can totally speed up the unlock time. I had previously gotten the whole thing done by 2250 but this time was 2255 and I pin that mostly on missing minor relics and no good Unity events before then. I also did the thing I previously did of saving all my Unity during the transition to apply to Virtuality Tradition and that got me the first 2 subtrads and 6 months for the Virtuality Policy subtrad to unlock. I prefer doing this over taking Planetary Ascensions now.

Second 60 Years:

Virtuality is a go, I take out the Fanatical Purifier, I take out another small fry, I do an Allegiance War to whittle down an Overlord into a more digestible morsel for later, I conquer my 6th Habitat of another small fry, I get my Cruiser armadas going, I get to 4 Merc Enclaves, I'm humming along and it feels like this one has potential. The first Kilostructures are finally build so I scooped up a few Arc Furnaces along the way. I keep plugging along with Branch Offices on my surrounding neighbors.

During this time I did a thing I typically do which is go deep into the red with Starbase capacity so I have the Naval Cap to build some conquering amardas and everything about this is goofy. When ECs are bountiful and Fleet Maintenance is low and Starbase costs are low, going over the Starbase cap to avoid going over Naval cap makes a ton of sense - it simply will not cost a ton in overages on the starbases and it's much easier to overshoot naval cap when it's below 500. As Naval Cap increases and the maintenance of Starbases and fleets increases, the window on overdoing it closes and becomes a huge cost center. It feels kinda neat that this is a limited time thing and conquering starbases absolutely makes it a cinch but at a certain point, the Galactic Senate/Branch Offices/Strategic Command Centers need to take over being the source Naval Cap.

Knock out all remaining Traditions by 2305 and wait for Ascension Theory, Mega Structures to be researchable as both are really important for uncorking mid-late play. Research wasn't great but good enough to get Naval Contractors unlocked, and I swear that the 3rd Civic is one of the most crucial inflections in the game for taking it over.

Went in this order with Traditions: Mercantile, Expansion, Diplomacy, Virtuality, Enmity, Supremacy, Statecraft. While everyone might have ideas about best order, for me it follows really simply along making use of them with forces available. Statecraft being the last Tradition was finally realizing that Claims are going to be super important and the Rightful Claims Agenda combined with Military Buildup Agenda absolutely drops the costs way down. Prosperity is way good but the issue with the spec and winning it isn't productive output. That's the only other seeming choice here. Supremacy late was concurrent with having capable armadas. Enmity is to pop off all the rivalries and get the cheaper claims, plus find new relations through mutual rivalries and potentially pick up war allies. Antagonististic Stance for the 6 total Rivalries is soooooooooo good at that point in the game. Enmity wanes a ton later on but it is the absolutely the thing that carries you over the mid-game hump in having influence and having cheap claims on top of all else it does.

One of the goofier things about blasting traditions out this quick and having macro strategy of the first act being building/relationships, the second act being time to make all the moves and take your gains, and the third act being time to knock off the other top 5 AI empires, beat Crisis/War In Heaven and shore up points is that the order doesn't feel super important so long as you get it done quickly. Under previous regimes and playthroughs, the order seemed way more important because it'd take ~150 years to knock them all out, the last 2 especially coming slowly due to increased sprawl without attendant Unity production with wider-conquering. Marketplace of Ideas could help out there but it was super rare for me with the Lithoid cousins to ever finish in total before 2350.

I did release a few indies from my gains and they did help bridge some gaps but I regret it for the effect it had later.

The Next 100:

Even more conquering, but relying on Secret Fealties to make every single war in my favor from the get-go. Very lucky that I wasn't stymied by previous Branch Offices on overlords, but I did start choosing to only put Branch Offices on Vassals of others to avoid the headache. It was still a headache in one particular case towards the end with a Federated Vassal, but half of my 10 wars between 2320 and 2420 were secret fealties, with Raid and Conquest being the other CBs. Raid was an attempt to steal 2 relics and it didn't work, conquer was just to eliminate empires and take their Kilostructures.

In this time I found another Fanatical Purifier at the tail end of the Starburst that had done very well for itself and then basically choked on itself when it ran out of enemies to conquer. Why? There was an empire in one hyperlane outlet from the tail end. We're talking 50+ systems all bottlenecked from the rest of the galaxy by one empire. When I finally went to clobber that Fanatical Purifier, it was already engaged in a war with that chokepoint empire but it was weak. One of my Merc fleets at 75k punching power matched 3 of theirs around 25K, it was a total rout and I can't explain why it basically eliminated all its neighbors by how it painted the tail, and then stopped and atrophied. I took it.

I wish I could say more about this period but it was kind of a 'plays itself' blur. I was engaged in up to 3 wars at a time, usually 2 at any given moment and the routine was - Make Claims, rig Secret Fealties, Conquer/Liberate, repeatedly. For the other contenders - Combine Display of Power, Rightful Claims and Military Buildup to make all your claims after an initial war to get one in their territory. Secret Fealties and Allegience Wars are dope for one other reason too which is it spares you having to make claims that the Vassal-to-be is already making in a bid to reclaim lost territory when the were first vassalized. For all the other weaklings, straight conquer hopefully from a nearby starbase to make them cheap.

I did release my 6th Habitat as an independent because it was a pure Industrial District Monster but I really needed the breathing room and research more. I stopped releasing independents on the whole though just because it was a larger headache to make sure they didn't become vassal or federated and honestly, I almost came in 2nd because a bunch of my released gains federated with the last remaining empire that hadn't faced my armadas. It was tucked in behind an FE and had room to grow up decently.

Enmity finally stopped kicking so hard with Rivalries (because I outgrew all but the top 4) but luckily Will to Power became available right around then. This is the perfect baton passing and I'd almost think it was supposed to go like this but its just perfect timing. At the end, becoming custodian and developing your Commanders beyond level 5 unlocks the Influence to put the game away.

Final 80:

I convert all my Illicit Research Labs to Pirate Havens on my BOs - this gets me to 9999 Naval Cap with everything else I have going on vis a vis measure, anchorages, leaders, etc and then I close some anchorages to unburden my ECs. At the late stage of the game, ship maintenance is ludicrously expensive so staying out of the red on Naval Cap is hella important, and going over Starbase Cap is also painful.

So all this time I'm hovering in 3rd place behind two allies in the same fed, one with 2 vassals. Easily the number one enemy to winning. One of the best things though is that both vassals are clear on the other side of a wormhole and technically only 1 fed member is in the vicinity to do anything about it. I line up the Secret Fealties, make my claims and about to punch it when...the Vassals become Fed Members themselves. I can't declare an Allegience War for both vassals due to Branch Offices on the Vassals. That's weird, like they shouldn't figure but they do. I bite the bullet and close about 2000 ECs and 300 Naval Cap of Branch Offices, declare war and then immedietely set them up again in the midst of the war. Goofy stuff but I had to fight that war and I smoked it, but didn't see the target empire colonizing habs - so I missed 3 claims to make and had to finish them off after Crisis

Crisis was 10x Unbidden around 2340. This was good, this allowed me a little more build up plus it was on the tail end of the aformentioned war. It spawned on top of one of the Fed Members and then went through the wormhole to the other Fed Member. Very good! Unbidden does the typical Unbidden thing and leaves the portal exposed, which the most adjacent Fed Member closes and now it's just the big fleets. I take my time whittling them down but damn I was punching above my weight against Crisis with every modifier I could throw at it including Defenders of the Galaxy and Oppose the Fallen, mostly shield bypass weapons, and about 4:5 in matching fleet power. I was definitely rated as weaker until the weapons started firing. Once that is pretty much over, I finish off the remaining Fed Member and focus on the awakened FEs, a remaining Hive Mind thats climbed to #1 with a Vassal, try to get relics and beat down whoever tries to get ahead of me.

In the last 80, I took 4 science nexus, 3 strategic coordination centers, 2 mega art installations, 2 Interstellar Assemblies and I credit capturing Megas with allowing me to keep pace and eventually win. Each one helped immensely with a need where the relief likely wasn't coming anywhere else in the mature state of the playthrough.

Finally, in the last 20 years, the last AI empire I havent even really touched formed a Federation, had most of my released independents join, went on an Alliance War and basically made a game of it where I was very worried I'd have to declare them crisis, become emperor or find some cheese, and luckily I didn't have to do any of that. Well, a dusting of a trade with a mirror empire for 1000 alloys but that's it.

And this leads back to my point about the score. I could have made it a sure win by simply buying as many alloys as possible the last 2 months of the game and enjoying the Economic Score boost by about 20k but I didn't want to do that. I missed my chance to declare them crisis and that seemed really jerkass, I didn't want to become Emperor because that's too simple and blunt. I only made this alarming realization that you can juke economic score so much simply purchasing alloys when trying to figure out how I could possibly boost anything in the home stretch. Economic Score is as sensitive to rapid fluctuation in its domain as Diplomatic Weight is sensitive to Fleets - you feel their excessive factoring the moment you buy/build and feel their absence if something happens to production/fleets. Luckily I had a 321 points to spare.

There's a lot to talk about with this run and I covered all the major points but I'm sure theres a few things I forgot to mention that I will remember later.

 

[mrt1212]

Unbidden Crisis made a beeline to my salvager enclave, I effing couldn't believe it because it was way out of the way in the fallow fields of a former Fanatical Purifier at the tail end of the starburst. And I swear to Zarqlan that Unbidden is only really bad if it spawns on top of you and your core systems are right in their way and you had half your entire armada docked at your HQ (so the prior playthrough where it creamed me good simply spawning in the HQ system). Otherwise its a matter of it aimlessly wandering around and slowly picking it off one at a time, while any empire at all can go bonk the portal and usually stomp it the moment its unprotected. It should keep one fleet to protect it and then go hunting with the rest otherwise the moment there's daylight to hit the portal, it's basically over for them and a matter of time in killing them off. I had a whole big plan to scrap my many salvaged and dividend fleets for alloys but that never happened thanks to the Unbidden.

Salvaged fleets are so good for picking up additional forces exactly where you need them to shift-click paths through enemy territory and take it to the ftl-locked systems, quickly and thoughtlessly. Generally by the late game they are beefy enough to take on most bastions. Dividend Fleets are reinforcements for them and again, the simplest thing is select one salvaged fleet, all the dividend fleets at the HQ and merge them. If they die they die. When the wars over, they get scrapped and you build your elite Battleship pounders out of it. Love refurbishment division and always will.

I actually converted out of Pirate Havens and into Front Offices in the last 10 years to get some more ECs out of it and didn't see a dip at all in Naval Cap. It was that solid from all the contributions.

 

[mrt1212]

Ruminating on the photo finish and not using Galactic Emperor as failsafe, its absolutely incredible the Allegience War wrapped in 2499, my favorite Branch Office Whale leaped into 2nd place by taking a Vassal after their war finished, a 2k point gap between me and 2nd shrunk to 200, and I really could not call myself winner fully knowing until the last day.

An actual end to end run where I still had to fiddle with something in 11.2499 to increase my chances id win by a hair on my nose.

For all the grousing and griping around the end game and forgone conclusions, that can be rigged by spec and houserule to draw it out and make an actual white knuckle gripping experience to the end.

However, the end game does suffer from tedium and overwhelmingness, even cutting your domestic economy down to 6 habs and an assload of systems with kilos and megas.

Part of it is the UI presentation as always where:

kilo and mega icons are identical so its tedious to find specific loots to snatch or you just snatch it all and eat the extra time to do it.

40 fleets is a lot to orchestrate into an efficient system taking force even grouping them into 4 ad hoc armadas before kicking off the festivities, unless you rename every fleet to help place their role and grouping, and even then, staging sucks.

Merc enclaves and the ones you control and can upgrade is a click fiesta mystery that requires systematic scrolling or neighborhood checkins (you know all your own merc enclaves you founded are in your core sector, then you go to the next sector and check off the ones you conquered there, so on and so forth continually adding new spots to check, or you go through the goddamn contact list one at a time)

Branch Office opportunities...a chore past 100, and even worse with Diplomilitary implications unknown where a good spot might make it so you cant attack their Federation, or press a secret fealty, because the info doesnt reside there and the UI space is absolutely hosed in trying to cross reference crucial info between 3 menus. And that the Outliner is chronological, like, no, heavens no, group by empire, sort by empire distance, sort by EC gen, at least.

Its absolutely painful how much the UI doesnt flow with the rest of the game to acknowledge the game flow change from an quaint empire to a badass super organism empire where there are multiple identical parts that make up a whole, and the individual parts matter less than the whole, but you have to freaking check them the same way as if you were still that quaint ftl breaching neophyte settling in around 2230, and a scroll menu is a full scroll at most.

i gotta think that a lot of gripes and grousing with Stellaris arent directly about some mechanic or subsystem or pacing, but expressed by how managing a subsystem becomes over time, so that truncating the game into a 15 hour ARPG romp makes a helluva lotta sense rather than playing the game end to end where the outcome was truly a last day affair. Making it end to end even hits all of the damn narrative marks, gives you something to do to win at all times, reveals niche tools youd never consider playing powergamer meta tuner specs but are your best bet out of a lot of iffy bets, basically seems like the game devs want to present...

But becomes grindy chore in the 3rd act by UI alone and discrepancy between what we want to know in the capacities to know and apply it, and what the UI presents.