Reveal bastard

[Arona]

In CK2 lacked a feature to reveal your bastard.

I think most of CK2 players have experienced that dalliance with random ruler wife will produce better heir thatn yours but random ruler thinks its theirs and you cant legitimaze him.

I think CK3 should have feature to reveal and legitamize bastards even then if no one yet knows about them and thinks it their child.

Also would nice to have plot to investigate any child legitamcy.

 

[Pied-Noir]

In CK2 lacked a feature to reveal your bastard.

I think most of CK2 players have experienced that dalliance with random ruler wife will produce better heir thatn yours but random ruler thinks its theirs and you cant legitimaze him.

I think CK3 should have feature to reveal and legitamize bastards even then if no one yet knows about them and thinks it their child.

Also would nice to have plot to investigate any child legitamcy.

It makes no sense though.

During the Middle Ages, all that mattered was whether the 'father' acknowledged the child. No one had DNA tests and no one could definitively prove who a child's father was. Even if the child was the spitting image of the wife's lover, if the wife and husband both claimed the child was his then legally the child was his. That's just how it worked.

There's no point in a "surprise! he's a bastard" mechanic because it basically never happened and no side could actually prevail in such a case. There are historical examples of fathers disowning sons for political reasons, but in almost all cases they were very likely the biological father anyway (not that it mattered), and the threat of bastardy was simply a tool to shame the son and steer the inheritance.

 

[Ezumiyr]

There's no point in a "surprise! he's a bastard" mechanic because it basically never happened and no side could actually prevail in such a case. There are historical examples of fathers disowning sons for political reasons, but in almost all cases they were very likely the biological father anyway (not that it mattered), and the threat of bastardy was simply a tool to shame the son and steer the inheritance.

Exactly.
If you didn't acknoledged the bastard at birth (or close) you could say whatever you want, the child was not going to be yours anyway.
Surprise bastards are only a thing in modern fiction or legal affairs. It's quite common even in med fan stories to have surprise family links, but in reality there was no hidden power to attest an unexpected legacy.

And as a game mechanic it sounds overpowered. You thought you had a heir? Nope, it's mine now.

 

[Chlodio]

I agree that it would make no sense.

I'd actually suggest the complete opposite, which did happen. That being having the ability to plot "Fabricate illegitimacy", where you fabricate evidence on your target being a bastard and their mother an adulteress, which would allow the disinheriting and revoking of the titles of the supposed bastard. Naturally, doing that to your own children might be a bad move, because it would make you a cuckold, which likely cost a lot of prestige and opinion. But your rival who is always scheming against you? It would be very unfortunate if he was revealed to be a bastard...

 

[JSB217118]

You could claim illegitimacy, and that claim would have greater strength if it was actually true, and if you made sure to keep evidence. Mind you they would never be certain.

It would be nice to have a mechanic where you can acknowledge the legitimacy of a child with an unknown father that you refused to acknowledge earlier, especially if the mother is unmarried. Another feature could be "prove parentage" where the mother or a male relative sets out to prove you are the father of a bastard child you didn't acknowledge. If they get a high enough score it is assumed by most characters that you are the father and you get a negative opinion penalty, especially with women, for not only being a lecher but one who would deny his responsibilities.

 

[Arona]

Exactly.
If you didn't acknoledged the bastard at birth (or close) you could say whatever you want, the child was not going to be yours anyway.
Surprise bastards are only a thing in modern fiction or legal affairs. It's quite common even in med fan stories to have surprise family links, but in reality there was no hidden power to attest an unexpected legacy.

And as a game mechanic it sounds overpowered. You thought you had a heir? Nope, it's mine now.

After all its game not History simulator. At game there should be choices. If you seek historical accuracy then AI shoulnt do it or very rare occasion if they mess up. But as player there must be choices and every choice have consequences, if player can think he can deal with them then why halt a choices.

Nice thing i have saw in CK3 development so far, players actually has alot of more choices what them didnt have in CK2. Question is always should you do something just becouse it another option/choice or consequences are too severe

 

[vandevere]

Exactly.
If you didn't acknoledged the bastard at birth (or close) you could say whatever you want, the child was not going to be yours anyway.
Surprise bastards are only a thing in modern fiction or legal affairs. It's quite common even in med fan stories to have surprise family links, but in reality there was no hidden power to attest an unexpected legacy.

And as a game mechanic it sounds overpowered. You thought you had a heir? Nope, it's mine now.

Also, I'm afraid that, as a Game Mechanic, it might behave exactly like Seduction did when "Way of Life" first came out. The AI was literally out of control, seducers crawling out of the woodwork, and Known Bastards out-numbering legitimate children by at least a factor of three to one.

Those kinds of game mechanics have a history of the AI going batshit with it. I'd rather they didn't get the opportunity...

 

[JSB217118]

Good point.

 

[Pied-Noir]

Yeah, I've always had AI Seduction turned off. It's totally broken.

 

[JSB217118]

I've heard some mods try to fix it.

 

[Mackus]

Even if the child was the spitting image of the wife's lover, if the wife and husband both claimed the child was his then legally the child was his. That's just how it worked.

Yeah, until cucked guy dies and his brother pulls a Stannis and launches civil war. It doesn't matter until it does.

 

[vandevere]

Yeah, until cucked guy dies and his brother pulls a Stannis and launches civil war. It doesn't matter until it does.

The Problem is with the AI. If my fears about this are correct, literally EVERY Succession will be plagued by accusations, and counter-accusations, of bastardy.

There needs to be a little logic applied to the process, so most Successions-especially the ones where the heir is of Legal Age-won't always be marred by this BS.

Things might be different if the new Ruler is under 16. But, if the Ruler is over 16, the chances of someone crying, Bastard, should be lower...

 

[Mackus]

Problem isn't AI reacting with rage when finding out to cuckolding, but unrealistic rate of cuckolding.
Noble ladies had to have large retinue, and the more people around the harder it is to hide any secret.
It's not that fucking around didn't happen, it's just didn't took form of free love, but of pimping. Ambitious amoral courtiers would send their wives/daughters/sisters in their liege's way, and receive jobs and hush money and such as compensation.

 

[Pied-Noir]

Yeah, until cucked guy dies and his brother pulls a Stannis and launches civil war. It doesn't matter until it does.

It's fitting that you've chosen a fictional example here, because that almost never happened historically.

 

[Kadmus]

I agree that it would make no sense.

I'd actually suggest the complete opposite, which did happen. That being having the ability to plot "Fabricate illegitimacy", where you fabricate evidence on your target being a bastard and their mother an adulteress, which would allow the disinheriting and revoking of the titles of the supposed bastard. Naturally, doing that to your own children might be a bad move, because it would make you a cuckold, which likely cost a lot of prestige and opinion. But your rival who is always scheming against you? It would be very unfortunate if he was revealed to be a bastard...

I think a plot to investigate legitimacy would be cool though, maybe if you have a high learning or intrigue skill and their physical traits are not what you or your spouse's should be, then it would make sense to do that. in ASOIAF / Game of Thrones Joffrey was an unacknowledged bastard of the queen and her brother but one character noticed and claimed they were. It turns out he was in fact an incestuous bastard, so something like that would be really neat and realm changing imo

 

[Mackus]

It's fitting that you've chosen a fictional example here, because that almost never happened historically.

I also posted why it never happened.
Because all the fucking around didn't happen remotely the way CK2 portrays it as happening. If queen tried it, she'd at best be send to convent for life. At worst beheaded.
Her taking a break for a quick fuck while king wasn't in the castle is more of XVIII century thing, not middle ages.

 

[JSB217118]

Hopefully, seduction will be nerfed in this game.

 

[Denkt]

Hopefully, seduction will be nerfed in this game.

Everyone can do it in CK3 from what I know.

 

[JSB217118]

Yeah, but they'll factor in things like rank and age. Plus unlanded characters can't specialize in the seduction tree, so they will likely be unable to seduce characters who are "out of their league."

 

[Denkt]

Yeah, but they'll factor in things like rank and age. Plus unlanded characters can't specialize in the seduction tree, so they will likely be unable to seduce characters who are "out of their league."

Most landed characters wont likely specialize in it either since there are 15 trees in total and it also take a long time to complete a tree.