Ruling and religious laws

[TempestDK]

After a question was asked about these (in this thread), I thought I would try to show the difference between them, so it would be a bit easier for new players to understand.

Any comments and corrections to this are more than welcome. I'll try to keep this post updated with any additional information.

Ruling laws

The ruling law defines how your realm is governed by you the ruler. This affects taxes as well as relationship with your vassals and troop composition. The law selected also triggers various events, some good, some bad.

I have divided the effects of the laws into three categories:

Taxation:

Sliders in the financial screen. How high or low these can be set for Vassals (Scutage), Noble Class (Crown Duty), Peasant Class (Census Tax) and Burgher Class (Tolls).

Changes to these will affect the loyalty of the affected class.

Army Composition:

For this I have used an example of how an army would look if all classes had 25% power in a Plains province. The actual composition of an province army can depend on terrain and power of the classes as well as the religious law also. But that just gives too many parameters to give a good overview.

Vassal Loyalty:

Simply just the monthly loyalty change due to the ruling law selected.

Traditional Custom

This is the default ruling law, and the only one the AI nations will ever have. I am not sure if there are events that would change this though, but I doubt it. It gives the ruler fairly large degree of freedom in taxation and a "traditional" army composition (mostly cavalry and infantry).

After a bit of research, it appears that this is actually the ruling law that was implemented in England after the Magna Carta in the 12th. century.

Taxation:

Scutage (vassal tax): 0-70%
Crown Duty (nobles tax): 0-70%
Census tax (peasant tax): 0-70%
Tolls (burghers tax): 0-70%

Troop Composition:

Knights: 100
Light Cavalry: 200
Pikemen: 100
Heavy Infantry: 300
Archers: 100
Light Infantry: 200

Vassal Loyalty: no monthly change

Popular Law

This is a "law of the people" ... basically you gave power to the little people (burghers and peasants). It will severely limit your taxation possibilities with those two classes, while forcing you to tax your vassals and Nobles instead.

This probably gives the best army composition, as there are no Light Infantry. This is more elite and should lose less troops in battle than other army copositions.

Taxation:

Scutage (vassal tax): 50-100%
Crown Duty (nobles tax): 50-100%
Census tax (peasant tax): 0-50%
Tolls (burghers tax): 0-50%

Troop Composition:

Knights: 100
Light Cavalry: 300
Pikemen: 200
Heavy Infantry: 200
Archers: 200
Light Infantry: 0

Vassal Loyalty: no monthly change

Royal Prerogative

The "Ruler's Law" ... YOU call the shots. The vassals are just henchmen who can tag along to leech off YOUR glory.

This will basically piss off your vassals eventually, as they find this law too heavy handed. They will moan and complain alot (through events) and you run the risk of Realm Duress.

This is best used with smaller nations without too many vassals.

If you want an extra challenge after conquering half the map, switch to this law.

Army composition is good and balanced.

Taxation:

Scutage (vassal tax): 0-100%
Crown Duty (nobles tax): 50-100%
Census tax (peasant tax): 25-100%
Tolls (burghers tax): 25-100%

Troop Composition:

Knights: 200
Light Cavalry: 200
Pikemen: 100
Heavy Infantry: 200
Archers: 200
Light Infantry: 200

Vassal Loyalty: -1% per month (+ lots of loyalty lowering events)

Feudal Contract

This is the "Vassals Law" and the one they will keep pestering you to switch to. The vassals are (almost) equals to the ruler, and posses lots of power. This is one step further than Magna Carta, where the the king had to consult and gain acceptance from the vassals for many decisions. This seems to be have been practiced in the Kingdom of Jerusalem, in real life.

Worst army composition of all the ruling laws, with lots of cannon fodder... I mean peasant rabble ... I mean Light Infantry.

Taxation:

Scutage (vassal tax): 0-50%
Crown Duty (nobles tax): 0-50%
Census tax (peasant tax): 50-100%
Tolls (burghers tax): 50-100%

Troop Composition:

Knights: 200
Light Cavalry: 300
Pikemen: 100
Heavy Infantry: 100
Archers: 100
Light Infantry: 500

Vassal Loyalty: +1% monthly (+ lots of loyalty increasing events)

edit (27/10): Seems that Magna Carta is more akin to Traditional Custom, not Feudal Contract, which is actually even "harsher" against the King/Ruler. I have updated the "fluff" text for the two laws a bit.

 

[TempestDK]

Religious laws:

Religious laws determine how you stand with the church in terms of who is actually in charge of the morality of the people. It can range from being the Pope's errand boy (Church Supremacy) to being nearly considered a heretic (Regal Supremacy).

Religious law mainly governs religious based events. But it also has an effect on the church donations you can give as well as troop composition of your army (and or money in taxes).

Problem with defining troop composition is that if the class has 25% power, all laws gives the same (none). Giving more power will increasee troops or money (or both), but that is usually at the expense of troops, that other classes will give.

Despite what is stated at the bottom of the law description about bishop appointments, this functionality were never implemented (as far as I know). It seems to be left over from the original ideas made by Snowball (third party developer who failed miserably at developing the game before Johan took over).

Regal Supremacy:

This is where you as King consider yourself the chosen representative of God's will on earth. What you say goes .. even in church matters. The church exists for you, and the Pope is just some fat git sitting in Rome trying to rule Europe.

Church Donations: 0-80%

The only church law that allows you to give NO money to the church. This ofcourse will severaly affect the class' loyalty in all your provinces.

Clergy power: Gives more troops

Every "sword" in the class power screen gives extra troops. These will be Light Cavalry and Heavy Infantry.

Events:

Usury events are the Moneylender/Merchant houses events. These give the money making province improvements at the expense of piety. Other religious events can happen that either might give or take power from the clergy.

Other effects: None

Monastic Supremacy:

This is the law that gives the monastic clergy power over the people. Personally I am not sure how to else describe this law, so any help would be appreciated

Church Donations: 50-100%

Clergy power: More money

Instead of troops, extra power to the Clergy class will give you money instead. How much this amount is, is currently unknown. Be aware that giving more power to this class at the expense of the others might result in less money as they loose loyalty.

Events:

No usury events will fire, so no getting free money lenders. Events can yield religious research discoveries as well as events that strengthen religious power in your provinces.

Other effects: Monasteries and Templar Houses are supposedly cheaper to build. But I can't see any difference in price with this law.

Ecclesical Balance:

This seems to be the most used law by the AI nations. Seems to be pretty balanced (hence the name). But will erode church power over time.

Church Donations: 30-70%

Clergy Power: More troops and more money

A mix between RS and MS it seems. Will probably be half of what the other two laws would have given. Sadly I have no numbers calculated.

Events: Religious power will be undermined through events, and no usury events will fire with this law.

Other Effects: None known.


Church Supremacy

Pope rules, and you are his lap dog. Basically the church has a very strong influence in your society, and what the Pope says, goes.

Church Donations: 70-100%

Massive donations are required, which is good for your piety, and bad for your pocket book.

Clergy Power: Nothing

Yes, you read it right ... you get NO extra troops and NO extra money. You get squat, the church gets all the goodies.

Events: You will get usury events that will dissolve any Moneylender/Merchant House province improvements you might have for a small increase in piety. Also events will fire to strenghten religious power in your realm.

Other effects: Will probably be good for religious conversion events, though this is not a certainty on my part.

 

[Nick B II]

IMO Fuedal Contract Armies are the best, arguably the best, especially in the early game. With FC you get lots of Knights, and early on Knights are the most powerful battle unit.

Keep in mind that hundreds of the peasants in your example are free. TC and PL have 1,000 troops; RP has 1,100; but FC has 1,300.

That 1,300 total troops has another major plus. In CK siege-speed is a major strategic advantage and 1,300 troops siege a lot faster than 1,100.

If you've got a large country with many vassals there's absolutely no contest. TC provides smaller regiments, and only includes more Pikemen.

PL forces you to have relatively high scutage (50%). Scutage is nice, but it reduces your vassal manpower. You're more dependent on your desmene troops, and being depend on your personal troops is dumb financially. And it pisses your vassals off. Pissed-off vassals are not good when your desmene is 12 provinces, and they've got 50 between them.

RP also pisses your vassals off.

Nick

 

[unmerged(75851)]

Great topic so far, can't wait to hear more!


Also, that 1% bonus for loyalty for Feudal Contract sounds nice. (btw, why go with TC when your country gets huge?)

 

[TempestDK]

Great topic so far, can't wait to hear more!


Also, that 1% bonus for loyalty for Feudal Contract sounds nice. (btw, why go with TC when your country gets huge?)

I will finish the Religious laws tonight I hope .)

I don't think anyone except the AI uses Traditional Custom. When my empire gets big, I usually switch to Feudal Contract as it gives a positive vassal loyalty modifier. When you have many vassals, some of them are certain to not agree with your ruler's traits or something, so the extra +1% can help keep them happy and more manageable.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

When this is finished, I will copy it to the FAQ-section.

Keep up the good work, TempestDK !

 

[Epaminondas]

Yes, please.

 

[unmerged(75851)]

What should be used before FC when you're smaller?

 

[TempestDK]

What should be used before FC when you're smaller?

Depends on your mood ... it seems Nick B favours FC always.

I prefer more elite troops when smaller (where pissed off vassals are not too much of a problem). So I use either RP or PL.

As Nick mentions, you do have more troops under FC ... but I think the low-morale and mostly useless L. Infantry (especially in 1066) is dead weight in the army. I do prefer more Pikemen and archers.

I would use PL or RP all the time, if I could just manage to kick it into my vassals' heads that they are better off with giving power to ME!!

 

[unmerged(173513)]

Yeah this is great. It should be a sticky. I look forward to reading about the religious laws, as I'm not sure what "usury" events are.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Yeah this is great. It should be a sticky. I look forward to reading about the religious laws, as I'm not sure what "usury" events are.

Like I already said, once it is finished I will copy it to the FAQ-section. No need to make it a sticky.

 

[unmerged(136038)]

Traditional Custom

This is the default ruling law, and the only one the AI nations will ever have. I am not sure if there are events that would change this though, but I doubt it.

A small nit pick but their are events for vassals to change ruling laws to match their ruler. Anyways good job, this is great, waiting to see religious laws now.

 

[Nick B II]

What should be used before FC when you're smaller?

I try to avoid changing laws more than once. Doing so gives you loyalty hits with the stands in your desmene, which reduces your income and manpower significantly. You can recover from it by lowering taxes, but it takes awhile and it's a pain.

That said RP's probably a decent idea if you're the size of Denmark. You can keep a big chunk of the country in your desmene, and give the rest to the Crown Prince.

If you really hate light infantry (you probably should because it's useless for everything but sieges) popular law is a sensible choice. Potential tax rates are more restricted, which is a disadvantage, especially if you have any vassals you want to be strong.

Keep in mind that Traditional Custom is never really a bad choice. You have a lot of freedom in tax rates, and fine-tuning your army is only really important in multi-player. A well-run TC country easily beats a poorly-run equivelent that uses any other law.

In fact the only law that is ever a truly dumb choice is RP. Somebody is bound to dislike you. Throw in a -1.0 loyalty penalty and you're virtually guaranteed a very interesting time when a succession happens.

Unless you're role-playing, and you want to fight a major Civil War every few years. Then you'd be stupid to use anything but RP.

Nick

 

[unmerged(75851)]

It makes sense that Feudal Contract has such lousy troops, to balance out the epic loyalty bonus.

But in the end, shouldn't the loyalty bonus be more than enough to compensate for lousy troop composition? Or would it only be enough if you had a massive blob capable to fielding large armies, whereas small countries would suffer from it?

 

[Nick B II]

It makes sense that Feudal Contract has such lousy troops, to balance out the epic loyalty bonus.

But in the end, shouldn't the loyalty bonus be more than enough to compensate for lousy troop composition? Or would it only be enough if you had a massive blob capable to fielding large armies, whereas small countries would suffer from it?

In single-player it does. Especially if you have more than 4-5 vassals. Or an aggressive ruler. +1.0 loyalty means more BB without penalty.

A small country (1-2 vassals, realm mostly in King's desmene) would benefit slightly from PL or RP in battle, but they'd have 30% less troops to siege with. So it's mixed.

In Multi-Player this all changes because the other humans are way smarter than the AI.

Nick

 

[chowbeng]

I used to take Feudal Contract all the time, but after being "educated" by the forum, Royal Prerogative and Popular Law seems to be the way to go. It depends on how indivdual playstyle (number of vassals, etc), but RP is my fave. By keeping vassals small and weak and if you have a good ruler, you should be able to overcome RP loyalty penalty. FC is the law for hopeless idiots which got the throne by bad luck.

Summary : In decending order of ruler's ability : RP. PL. TC, FC.

 

[TempestDK]

I used to take Feudal Contract all the time, but after being "educated" by the forum, Royal Prerogative and Popular Law seems to be the way to go. It depends on how indivdual playstyle (number of vassals, etc), but RP is my fave. By keeping vassals small and weak and if you have a good ruler, you should be able to overcome RP loyalty penalty. FC is the law for hopeless idiots which got the throne by bad luck.

Summary : In decending order of ruler's ability : RP. PL. TC, FC.

Problem with RP is that even if you keep the vassals small and weak, the law will eventually create so much dissent, that you get Realm Duress, and the whole realm usually goes to hell from there.

So even if the individual vassals are weak and pathetic, 5 of them can create civil strife by giving your Realm Duress.

 

[Azugal]

The interesting thing is that the description for Feudal contract talks about your troop composition being "heavy, with emphasis on Knights." Which seems to go completely against what's said here.

Royal Perogative: "heavy, but mixed."
Traditional Custom: "very mixed, but with few Knights."
Popular Law: "light and with an emphasis on Pikemen and archers."

 

[Nick B II]

It's exaggerating a bit when the game tells you FC regiments are "heavy," but it's right about the knights. You can get as many knights with RP, but there are loyalty issues.

I'm a bit skeptical when someone says they change their laws based on their ruler's talent level. Changing those laws really, really pisses off all four stands. When I go from TC to FC it typically takes a decade or more before I'm back at 100% loyalty with everybody. This is partly because you can't cut taxes on peasants with FC, but PL suffers similar tax limitations.

Problem with RP is that even if you keep the vassals small and weak, the law will eventually create so much dissent, that you get Realm Duress, and the whole realm usually goes to hell from there.

Note that if your vassals are small, and you're France you have 50 of them. Which means one guy is bound to hate you just due to traits. He'll probably get rebellious, which means you're probably spending half your time with Realm Duress. That may sound like an exaggeration, but having many vassals means your stability probably falls, which means your more likely to get bad events such as Realm Duress.

Add in RP and you've got a recipe for trouble. Big trouble

You know that newbies frequently ask for advice about playing Byzantium? And one of the first things vets tell them to do is replace RP with FC? There's a reason for that.

CK is unusual in that actively encourages you to create powerful vassals if you want a big country. You simply can't run France without vassals, and ten relatively strong vassals are a lot easier to manage than 50 schmucks with a county apiece.

Nick

 

[TempestDK]

Religious laws have been updated.

Sadly it was not as easy to test as Ruling Laws ... but I hope some might find it useful anyways.

It seems to me that most of the religious laws functionality wasn't implemented as intended. which is kind of sad ... the potential for fun interaction between church and state was great.

As it is now, I see no real big difference between the laws except some minor modifiers for events and triggers for other events.