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Nuclear Elvis

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Sep 25, 2019
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I present to you: Sakastan.

This is a note of Strategy for those trying to attempt either the White Hun achievement and/or reforming the Zunist Religion.

Once you expand your Demesne from the starting point of County of Mohadavasaka into at least a Kingdom (Duchy only is too small in my opinion), you should consider shifting from Hindu religion and instead to a Zunist pathway for the remainder of the game. This simultaneously puts you on path for a 2nd achievement to Reform the Zunist Religion as an Emperor level liege (you can't just reform Zunist, must also be an Emperor to trigger the Achievement btw).

Considerations in this strategy:
- Gaining new counties comes quicker, since as a Pagan you can do quick-hitting wars of "Conquest" of counties, without triggering entire Holy Wars. This matters when you're small as a growing Kingdom trying to expand northward to meet the requirements of the White Hun achievement.
- The Zunist Holy Sites are all localized near your starting point of Mohadavasaka, so this is the absolute best pathway to gain a Pagan religion plus reform it the fastest from all available choices.
- You need an offset against both Eastern Religions you start with, plus an allied defense against the Abbassid Empire with enough combat power to rival and beat back that horde of Muslim armies that will come for you. Going Pagan Zunist and allying with the Afghan Zunists early as possible in the game, not only gives you a longer-term ally in the region for your expansion purposes, but also ensures that Zunist NPCs are preserved so you can pull them into your Court and thus enable your Main Character to have a Concubine that makes it possible to switch religions to Zunist at the right time.
- Put a Zunist in charge as your Tutor once you achieve Duchy or higher status since you'll want to grow Zunist children into your Court and across your holdings, in preparation for switching to Zunist religion for your main character.
- Beware switching to Zunist Pagan too early, because a dominant Hindu Liege will Revoke your holdings and end the game quickly. You must look for weakness in your Hindu Liege, civil wars, combined with expanding into the Jain counties to the South/Southwest of starting county of Mohadavasaka. Get claims on those opposing Jain counties while you are Hindu early on, to impress your Hindu liege in the early game.
- Focus your Main Characters and 100% of all children and grandchildren in your Dynasty, to Martial training. All of them. Don't shift at all because you need your entire Dynasty "ready to fight" and the Zunist religion you will shift into, has expectations of warriors. You are going from a single county to expand in the face of both Religious and political opposition all around you. You can find good NPCs to be Counselors, so there is no need to focus any Dynasty member outside Martial training.
- Once Zunist, and expanding as a Zunist Kingdom that will become an Empire, ensure you bring in any and all Pagans with Bloodlines into your Court. Having a robust bloodline assortment inside your Dynasty will be essential. Don't waste daughters and granddaughters on alliance marriages unless it's critical to staying alive, as you want matrilineal marriages and the dynasty growing with bloodlines brought in.
- Use Loyal Commanders found by your Marshal, to take over key Counties and Duchies, empower them as new Vassals and insta-create nobles out of them as result. These non-Dynasty strong-skilled Commanders are what you need as Zunist nobles going forward. If you put Dynasty members into land holdings, they will break away from you, cause civil wars, etc. It's better to expand via Loyal Vassals.
- You are close to China, so generate Grace with high-stat Commanders and potential Eunuchs, along with bearing many daughters so you can also earn Grace with them as well. You should easily be able to gain 100% of all Chinese Artifacts on a play-through in this area of the map. You will also become powerful enough to dominate China, should they attack you when you are a Zunist Emperor (you can gain many Horse Archers as Saka Culture).

See Screenshot for my footprint just after forming a Custom Empire that I named "Sakastan" as a custom name. Note the sprawl in 2 separate land masses. I conquered and brought in the Afghan Zunists to the Northwest of Mohadavasaka, and gained all the Jain lands in Gujarat and then bounced back northward. I have gained 4 of the Zunist Holy Sites at this point, which I needed in order to Reform the Religion. You must also have Moral Authority of 50 or higher to Reform the Pagan religion, which is difficult unless you get 4 of the sites plus win Holy Wars (I defeated Abbassid in defense of a major Holy War for 3% Moral Authority gain that took me to 50% for the triggering effect).

To put in perspective the Combat Power you can generate as a Zunist, this screenshot is just after a defensive Holy War against Abbassids, which I won, and took the Abbassid leader from over 60K total troop strength down to 19K. The key defensive thing is your leader such as my Main Character here, must gain the Warrior trait for Zunists that gives him boosts in both Desert and Mountain terrain (essential for beating Abbassids in their own territory). Plus, you must generate enough gold so that you can hire a Mercenary army full of Horse Archers (superior to Elephants if you get Saka Culture expanding in your demesne). You can defend with half the troop strength against Abbassid and still win Defensive battles this way.
Sakastan_Early View after Reforming Zunist.jpg
 
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I will update this post later, with more expansion Northward and showing how this land mass of Sakastan grows and expands.

You can go on offense against Abbassids even when just a Kingdom, especially if you have enough Horse Archers and Cavalry plus Tech advancement beyond Abbassids (always spy on Constantinople once you can, but start by spying on main Chinese Capitol first). The 2nd land mass to northwest in prior post screenshot shows how I built a pathway to gain all the Zunist Holy Sites in that area. Once your Truce ends, go to war against Abbassids if they're in other wars. Keep your armies on your own Mountain tiles of land, so your Army regenerates manpower. Only siege down the County you have a Conquest War against than get your army back into your own territory to get ready to defend from large Abbassid armies that will eventually come for you. Use your Pagan lands as part of defensive strategy because the Abbassids will get attrition for Pagan penalties.

When I reformed the Zunist religion, I chose the following:
- Unyielding (armies stronger when defending home territory, religion resistant to proselytizing, Great Holy Wars are allowed). I chose this because of the Defensive benefits but also counter-proselytizing effects because you face both Sunni and Hindu attempts of conversion as you expand. Also, rapid expansion via Great Holy Wars is essential to cutting down your total timeline to expand for the White Hun achievement.
- Dawnbreakers (Polygamy is allowed, Close-Kin marriage allowed, Close-Kin marriage among nobility is a Divine Union). This is the default boost at #2 slot for Pagan reformation, and I would not shift from this.
- Ancestor Veneration (Religious Head can confer status upon Dead Ancestors, enables Eldership succession law). This was more an experiment for this play-through. This enables the Elder Succession option which I may use for this White Hun process if it improves consolidation of the Empire along the way.
- Hierocratic (a Priest is put in charge of the Religion). This enables Claims which I find useful, but this choice also preserves Great Holy Wars along the way. All 4 of these in combination result in ability for Great Holy Wars, which is essential to mass expansion of the Zunist Saka growth you need to earn the White Hun achievement more quickly (this suggestion post is also about Pace and doing this more rapidly).
 
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Holy Order "Knights of the Sun" also generates in support of your cause. Here is the origin screenshot the game-day the Holy Order was generated, plus I have the menu up on the left side that shows you their manpower and troop types upon creation in my particular play-through (results may vary!).
Knights of the Sun.jpg
 
Going Zunist is definitely a viable strategy. And while the Hephthalites almost certainly weren't Zunist, being some flavour of pagan is probably the closest you can get to their actual historic religion - and Zunist is pretty handwavy, so it's easy to fit it into your RP.

Staying Hindu also works though, and being Saka Hindu is quite useful for rapid expansion in the Tarim basin (Indian religions can subjugate other Indian religions with the same culture group, eg. you can usually subjugate the Buddhist Tocharian king of Khotan). Staying Hindu also gives you the ability to form India and to use their monastic society. (If you can manage the hefty opinion penalty from being no-caste for the rest of your life, or if you can afford the extortionate price to regain kshatriya, you can temporarily switch to zunist via holy site to join the warrior lodge and pick up the leader trait. My strategy was to spend a decade or two having kshatriya kids before heading to the warrior lodge, so that the no-caste opinion penalty was partially offset by the long-reign opinion buff.)

The wiki achievement guide recommends going Sunni. I kind-of agree - I think Sunni/Shia would probably be the easiest way to do this run - but, on the other hand, anyone attempting the White Hun achievement probably doesn't need to take the easiest option!

Anyway, I finally picked up this achievement a couple of months ago, as Hindu, and the added challenge made it more enjoyable. Also, some medieval successor realms had a different religion to their ancient predecessor (eg: Persia Zoro->Shia), so re-establishing the empire with a completely different religion didn't seem particularly implausible to me. Here's a screenshot of my final ironman save immediately after earning the achievement. I may have overachieved a little ;-)
1753006240389.png
 
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When I reformed the Zunist religion, I chose the following:
- Unyielding, because of the Defensive benefits but also counter-proselytizing effects because you face both Sunni and Hindu attempts of conversion as you expand.
- The default boost at #2 slot which gives Polygamy, Close-Kin marriages.
- Honor Ancestors/dead (this was more an experiment for this play-through).
- Put a Priest in charge of the Religion. (all 4 of these in combination result in ability for Great Holy Wars, which is also essential to mass expansion of the Zunist Saka growth you need to earn the White Hun achievement).
You could also have chosen Temporal/Autocephalous leadership for GHWs. However, in the base game, Ancestor Veneration (pagan saints) doesn't work properly with Temporal leadership, and any religion change as Temporal is risky, and Autocephalous is rubbish, so you made the right choice :)

On the other hand, Dogmatic + {Divine Marriage|Dawnbreakers} + Temporal lets you declare yourself to be a god, which is fun. I always try to look out for unusual synergies/playstyles, to keep the game fresh.

Holy Order "Knights of the Sun" also generates in support of your cause. Here is the origin screenshot the game-day the Holy Order was generated, plus I have the menu up on the left side that shows you their manpower and troop types upon creation in my particular play-through (results may vary!).
FYI, holy order troop count depends on their religion's MA. (I thought it also depended on in-game date and on number of provinces which follow their religion, but the wiki disagrees. And I can't see where this is implemented in the scripts, so I can't check for myself.) In any case, you should be able to get up to ~15k holy order size eventually.
 
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Going Zunist is definitely a viable strategy. And while the Hephthalites almost certainly weren't Zunist, being some flavour of pagan is probably the closest you can get to their actual historic religion - and Zunist is pretty handwavy, so it's easy to fit it into your RP.

Staying Hindu also works though, and being Saka Hindu is quite useful for rapid expansion in the Tarim basin (Indian religions can subjugate other Indian religions with the same culture group, eg. you can usually subjugate the Buddhist Tocharian king of Khotan). Staying Hindu also gives you the ability to form India and to use their monastic society. (If you can manage the hefty opinion penalty from being no-caste for the rest of your life, or if you can afford the extortionate price to regain kshatriya, you can temporarily switch to zunist via holy site to join the warrior lodge and pick up the leader trait. My strategy was to spend a decade or two having kshatriya kids before heading to the warrior lodge, so that the no-caste opinion penalty was partially offset by the long-reign opinion buff.)

The wiki achievement guide recommends going Sunni. I kind-of agree - I think Sunni/Shia would probably be the easiest way to do this run - but, on the other hand, anyone attempting the White Hun achievement probably doesn't need to take the easiest option!

Anyway, I finally picked up this achievement a couple of months ago, as Hindu, and the added challenge made it more enjoyable. Also, some medieval successor realms had a different religion to their ancient predecessor (eg: Persia Zoro->Shia), so re-establishing the empire with a completely different religion didn't seem particularly implausible to me. Here's a screenshot of my final ironman save immediately after earning the achievement. I may have overachieved a little ;-)
View attachment 1336421
Thanks for the feedback. Just after I posted this initially, the first "Great Holy War" was declared by my "Church of Zun" head priest and we took 1/3 of India, so the Great Holy War expansion process will also take down India quickly as it progresses (and frankly, they're quick wars as there is such an imbalance of tech and manpower at this point). I've found that if I really concentrate on "delegating" and getting high Martial skill, loyal Commanders into key positions "on the fringe" - for any CK2 game where I'm Pagan and want to rapid expand, this puts a capable super-Count or Duchy on the edge of the entire Kingdom/Empire that offers them options to expand without the risk of being in my Dynasty and declaring independence upon death of the liege. That one strategy in itself is arguably one of the quickest ways to expand the blob, short of Crusades themselves (although one could argue the pace of Crusade frequency is slower than what a Pagan can generate with many capable nobles on the fringe).

One of the benefits of deviating away from starting religion Hindu is that all Conquests, Holy Wars, and Great Holy Wars strip power from all the underling vassals in Cities and Temples, which means you can also spread the Saka Culture into their leadership more forcibly, whereas you'd normally keep all Hindu city/temple holders as you conquer locally.

As for what the Hephthalites actually were, some were Nestorian Christians, so that in itself makes for another pathway that would be an interesting play through, to convert the Saka people to Nestorian after gaining enough power (Kingdom size demesne at minimum) and then see how that plays out, although the Moral Authority would be horrid because the Holy Sites are not localized.
 
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