Scripting "Real" Events

[uncajerf]

Hi, all;

I was a big fan of your HoI mod; never played Vanilla after I found it! So I'm glad to hear/read about your intentions for HoI2.

I'd like to help re: scripting events or compiling databases, if you need me. I will accept "assignments", should you have something for me to do, or I will perhaps try my hand "freelance" (so to speak).

I have a question, first, though:

Although I'm a fan of "realism" and historicity, I dislike rigid, linear events, i.e. something always triggering on a given date, no matter what. Therefore I was wondering how difficult it is to script events with a more "random" factor, i.e. dependent on other political conditions, et al. I know it can be done, but I have limited experience with scripting, and wouldn't want to get in over my head...

What I'd to see in the game, for example -- and what I wouldn't mind doing, if I can -- is having leaders, ministers, and tech teams show up (and die!) randomly, rather than scripting them to drop like flies the first few weeks of each year (tedious and unrealistic!), or alternatively be there throughout the entire game (boring and unrealistic!).

Anyway, is this possible, and if so, would that be something you'd want to incorporate into CORE, and if so is anyone working on it yet, and if not, can I offer my assistance? <whew... get all that? >


Jeff

 

[JRaup]

Hi, all;

Salutations!

I was a big fan of your HoI mod; never played Vanilla after I found it! So I'm glad to hear/read about your intentions for HoI2.

Glad you liked it, and are looking forward to the next generation.

I'd like to help re: scripting events or compiling databases, if you need me. I will accept "assignments", should you have something for me to do, or I will perhaps try my hand "freelance" (so to speak).

Take a wander over to: http://hoi.coremod.org to see mroe of what's going on. Feel free to post your offer there.

I have a question, first, though:

Although I'm a fan of "realism" and historicity, I dislike rigid, linear events, i.e. something always triggering on a given date, no matter what. Therefore I was wondering how difficult it is to script events with a more "random" factor, i.e. dependent on other political conditions, et al. I know it can be done, but I have limited experience with scripting, and wouldn't want to get in over my head...

Short answer: Yes, it's possible.
Long answer: It will depend on the event itself, and what, if any precursors there are for it. Some events currently set to fire on a specific date could probably benefit from a bit of randomness to them. But, we don't want to have it so that these events don't fire. It would be kind of strange to never have the Munich event fire if the conditions are correct for it.

What I'd to see in the game, for example -- and what I wouldn't mind doing, if I can -- is having leaders, ministers, and tech teams show up (and die!) randomly, rather than scripting them to drop like flies the first few weeks of each year (tedious and unrealistic!), or alternatively be there throughout the entire game (boring and unrealistic!).

This could be done, but it's rather a pain in game play terms. The only deaths that I can think of that will be in will be those that happened historically (no combat deaths though), along with a few resignations/retirements. For ministers and tech teams, this would mean setting ALL teams/ministers to start dated after 1949, and then having events to wake/sleep each. That's a lot of work for little to no gain in terms of game play. So , I wouldn't expect this to make it in.

Anyway, is this possible, and if so, would that be something you'd want to incorporate into CORE, and if so is anyone working on it yet, and if not, can I offer my assistance? <whew... get all that? >


Jeff

As I said above, wander over to coremod.org, and see what's all going on. You may find something lese to pique your interests there.

 

[uncajerf]

JRaup;

Thanx for your reply.

I was over @ coremod.org, but I saw nowhere to post my request, only the link to make $ contributions.

Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanx!


Jeff

 

[JRaup]

Try this link.. http://hoi.coremod.org/forum/portal.php It should take you to the forum mainpage..you'll need to register to post IIRC..

 

[uncajerf]

Try this link.. http://hoi.coremod.org/forum/portal.php It should take you to the forum mainpage..you'll need to register to post IIRC..

Thanx, JRaup. Unfortunately I can't login any more; the site doesn't recognise me, and I can't figure out why. Will have to try something else... :/


Jeff

 

[MateDow]

Hi, all;

I was a big fan of your HoI mod; never played Vanilla after I found it! So I'm glad to hear/read about your intentions for HoI2.

I'd like to help re: scripting events or compiling databases, if you need me. I will accept "assignments", should you have something for me to do, or I will perhaps try my hand "freelance" (so to speak).

Glad to hear from you.

I have a question, first, though:

Although I'm a fan of "realism" and historicity, I dislike rigid, linear events, i.e. something always triggering on a given date, no matter what. Therefore I was wondering how difficult it is to script events with a more "random" factor, i.e. dependent on other political conditions, et al. I know it can be done, but I have limited experience with scripting, and wouldn't want to get in over my head...

What I'd to see in the game, for example -- and what I wouldn't mind doing, if I can -- is having leaders, ministers, and tech teams show up (and die!) randomly, rather than scripting them to drop like flies the first few weeks of each year (tedious and unrealistic!), or alternatively be there throughout the entire game (boring and unrealistic!).

Anyway, is this possible, and if so, would that be something you'd want to incorporate into CORE, and if so is anyone working on it yet, and if not, can I offer my assistance? <whew... get all that? >


Jeff

The easiest way for you to get involved is to decide what exactly you want to start getting into the game. Are there events which you think are more in need of randomness than others? There are some events that pretty much have to happen on their historical dates. It doesn't make much sense to have the Hindenburg crash happen randomly or other events like that. Once you have a list of events that you want to start "randomizing" post them on this forum or coremod.org so people can comment. This usually makes your events better in the long run. Once you have them coded, post them for review and usually they will be incorperated into the next version of CORE.

I look forward to seeing you work. MDow

 

[uncajerf]

Glad to hear from you.

The easiest way for you to get involved is to decide what exactly you want to start getting into the game. Are there events which you think are more in need of randomness than others? There are some events that pretty much have to happen on their historical dates. It doesn't make much sense to have the Hindenburg crash happen randomly or other events like that. Once you have a list of events that you want to start "randomizing" post them on this forum or coremod.org so people can comment. This usually makes your events better in the long run. Once you have them coded, post them for review and usually they will be incorperated into the next version of CORE.

I look forward to seeing you work. MDow

MDow... cool.

I guess the first thing I need to do is look at the HoI scripting language!

As I said, the first thing I'd like to randomise is leader appearances/deaths (and tech teams and ministers). E.g., I wish to prevent a specific leader dying on a specific day just because he did historically, and I ESPECIALLY want to avoid the Fatal Flu epidemic the first few weeks of each year! :wacko: I'd like to make them so that those who actually have a commission have a slightly higher chance of dying "in combat" (but let's face it, not many maj. gen. or higher were exactly on the front lines...).

Something else that might be interesting that I just thought of: Perhaps if I can figure out where tech teams were located -- i.e. their factories et al -- if they're stratgegically bombed maybe there could be a chance that they get "knocked out" -- or maybe their projects just get delayed. How complex do you think that would be (other than the actual research; I'd need help with that to do every country... or else they could just be placed randomly)?

So I will have a look at the scripting language and see if I can make heads or tails of it. Alternatively -- if it looks like I'd be over my head in taking on the actual scripting -- I'd be happy to research/suggest events that others can code, if they like.

Thanx!


Jeff

 

[MateDow]

MDow... cool.

I guess the first thing I need to do is look at the HoI scripting language!

As I said, the first thing I'd like to randomise is leader appearances/deaths (and tech teams and ministers). E.g., I wish to prevent a specific leader dying on a specific day just because he did historically, and I ESPECIALLY want to avoid the Fatal Flu epidemic the first few weeks of each year! :wacko: I'd like to make them so that those who actually have a commission have a slightly higher chance of dying "in combat" (but let's face it, not many maj. gen. or higher were exactly on the front lines...).

If you can figure out a way to make these work, I would be happy to take a look. I would be wary of this though. I don't know of many general officers that were killed in combat (less than 20?). That doesn't leave too many opportunities for that type of event.

Something else that might be interesting that I just thought of: Perhaps if I can figure out where tech teams were located -- i.e. their factories et al -- if they're stratgegically bombed maybe there could be a chance that they get "knocked out" -- or maybe their projects just get delayed. How complex do you think that would be (other than the actual research; I'd need help with that to do every country... or else they could just be placed randomly)?

Is there any occurance of this historically?

So I will have a look at the scripting language and see if I can make heads or tails of it. Alternatively -- if it looks like I'd be over my head in taking on the actual scripting -- I'd be happy to research/suggest events that others can code, if they like.

Thanx!


Jeff

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. MDow

 

[JRaup]

If you can figure out a way to make these work, I would be happy to take a look. I would be wary of this though. I don't know of many general officers that were killed in combat (less than 20?). That doesn't leave too many opportunities for that type of event.
Is there any occurance of this historically?

Well, IIRC, on the Eastern front, German generals were dying at the rate of 10-15 per day at one point. But I don't think these were divisional or higher officers, but brigade and regimental officers. The equivalent of US Brigadier (1 star) Generals.

As for complete randomization, I'm against that honestly. It impacts game play and balance far too much. Plus, as this would have to be event driven, it becomes highly impractical.

I also think that the knock out type event should be handled very carefully, and with specific reasons. This too can be very unbalancing. At most it should be limited to the inidividulas who are tech teams, as the companies and universities can rebuild easilly (and did so constantly during teh war).

 

[uncajerf]

If you can figure out a way to make these work, I would be happy to take a look. I would be wary of this though. I don't know of many general officers that were killed in combat (less than 20?). That doesn't leave too many opportunities for that type of event.

Is there any occurance of this historically?

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. MDow

Well, it looks like JRaup figures it won't work.

But the leader deaths I'd script wouldn't be purely from battle; I'd have accidents, assassinations, as well as natural causes.

I'd thought of a way to randomise, and that's using an editor/spreadsheet that would scramble the death/"birth" dates at the start of each game but be hidden to the player. I don't know if this would work, but if it's impractical anyway....

As for the historical occurrence of strat. bombardment damaging "tech teams", yes indeedy, I know of at least one: The Krupp factories in Essen were repeatedly bombed, and although they weren't permanently obliterated it did have a some effect on their research and production. (For this reason I wouldn't put the chance of ANY damage at much more than 1-2% per attack by conventional aircraft, and then only temporary damage -- i.e. a research slowdown, assuming that team was engaged in research at the time.) They also had factories -- shipbuilding (u-boats) -- at Kiel that were attacked and damaged as well.

Incidentally, for those interested there's a book entitled The Arms of Krupp by William Manchester that's a biography of the Krupp family from 1587-1968. (It was published 'way back in 1968, so you'll likley find it only in second-hand paperback shops.)


Jeff

 

[uncajerf]

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. MDow

MDow/JRaup, et al;

I've come up with an Excel spreadsheet that randomises leader deaths/appearances, but it doesn't appear to save as a .csv file properly. Plus, I've been trying to plot them on a "bell curve" so that they will appear with increasing frequency as the war goes on -- seemingly a plausible situation -- and vice-versa, from 1935-1948, but I'm having trouble with the math (NOT my strong suit :wacko: ).

So I'd like to post it somewhere for others to look at & have a go at if they like, &/or offer suggestions to fix it; where would be good?

Thanx!


Jeff