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The Hitman

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Apr 26, 2018
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I'm wondering if this is a minority opinion on SD gameplay.

Since the launch of the Santa Claws update in December, I have just not been able to enjoy playing SD. Although this is my first post, I played consistently since day 1 of the open beta. I absolutely loved this game from the start. Sadly, I'm thinking about uninstalling it now. I hadn't played for two months and tried again the other night. The vehicle critical system has just killed the gameplay for me. I don't claim that it's a balance issue, but rather that it just makes the combat too slow and ultimately not fun. I much preferred the faster time to kill that has been implemented in this game up until December.

Does anyone else feel this way? Is there any chance that these changes will ever be reverted? I felt that the gameplay had a very good feel to it right before that patch. I didn't even by the second DLC since I was having such a hard time having an enjoyable experience with SD again.

I'm considering trying to make a mod (never done it before, not even sure I have the necessary skills) to revert the changes and include some of my own. I'll include the ideas below from another post I just made on reddit.

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  1. Revert back to the original vehicle combat. The meta that the Santa Claws update produced is just awful in my opinion, and has severely negated the importance of tactical maneuvering in favor of simply amassing units to take ground. Armored vehicles take WAY too many shots before being destroyed. If you were to keep anything, allow the crits (like bailout, internal frags, etc) to be fixed by supply vehicles, but don't make crits as prevalent as they are now.
  2. Make pricing and availability comparable across all decks. I would have to write a whole essay to properly address this, but the same unit should not have different costs in different divisions. The same availability principles should apply, with buffs to either availability or veterancy in accordance with the division's "theme". An example would be all decks that have M4A3s getting 3 of them in Phase B, except armor divisions may get more in Phase B or same amount with higher veterancy. Again, this point is difficult to succinctly address due to its complexity.
  3. Assuming the first two points have been implemented, slightly decrease the price gap between infantry and vehicle units. This would achieve a similar effect as desired in the Santa Claws update - armor would be cheaper and more viable, but could still be countered with the return of the faster paced AP mechanics of the original build. The intent is to strike a sweet spot where the loss of a tank doesn't carry the expensive loss impact on the game that it previously did, but the tanks aren't the AT sponges that they are now.
From there, Eugen would have a solid foundation to build game balance on, by making small changes to things like individual division phase income and universal unit cost/availability.

****
 
Personally I like the new crit system. That said I don't often have to deal with light vehicle trash trains rolling up a front. With the games relatively slow income players are punished less for positional mistakes with their expensive vehicles. This makes the preservation both easier and more important because it is more approachable. There are a few occasions that are irritating about this new system but I feel like, providing it isn't being abused with spam, it is a reasonable change. It's fostered more than one nail biting moment where I'm either hoping a friendly vehicle survives or an enemy vehicle dies.

von Luck
 
Von luck,

I do think that the old system was too punishing on the loss of expensive armor units, which I believe is what you're pointing out as well. I would have rather seen a price reduction across the board for vehicles, as described in my third point.

My reasoning for this is because it makes the loss less devastating, while still allowing for efficient anti vehicle weapons. I think this would mitigate the potential spam issue you mentioned. I prefer this because otherwise I've seen that players tend to amass powerful vehicles by late game, and I feel that this ruins the focus on tactics.
 
changing the cost of everything across the board would have wide ranging affect on the entire game. Once you come to terms with the different pace set forth by SD44 you can begin to enjoy it. Wargame titles are like a raucous brawl compared to the careful planning and for thought that SD44 offers. I also find that when playing allies part of the plan is always to destroy big cats when they arrive - if executed poorly you can allow the Germans to amass a terrible force. On the other hand if you can contain the German buildup it provides you with relevant tactical advantages with quasi strategic affects. Destroying big cats is part of the fun for me.

von Luck
 
I don't particularly like the new crit system, but it's not gamebreaking at all to me. RNG can hit you hard because of the new crit system, but I'm fine playing it most of the time. Armors are not AT sponges as you may have suggested. There is no bigger pleasure than destroying a big cat when playing allies. The new crit system makes this more satisfying when successfully done.

Regarding players massing powerful vehicles late game, I think it's a problem with how you approached that match. If you keep piling up pressure on your opponent, they can never amass lots of powerful armor late game. Certain divisions are capable of this, like Lehr, but as we all know, they are not powerful in A and B. If you strike them hard in A and B (of which you should really do), There will be no tank spam late game. Even if they managed to do it, you would've had enough points to win the game anyway even if you got pushed back.
 
vonLuck said:
Once you come to terms with the different pace set forth by SD44 you can begin to enjoy it. Wargame titles are like a raucous brawl compared to the careful planning and for thought that SD44 offers.
von Luck
Click to expand...

To clarify, I did enjoy the slower pace and emphasis on tactics and combined arms in SD. I also enjoyed the wargame titles. Do you feel that your careful planning is as rewarding now? I too enjoyed hunting big cats, but I liked ambushing them with something from a hedge. I feel like now I mostly get some sort of crit that gives them time to mitigate my maneuvers. I think the advantage should be clear to the player with better tactics.

I think you've both brought up great points about keeping pressure on. This is something I have not adjusted well to. I'm still not sure I like what it's done for the game but I will keep it in mind if I try again.
 
It sure does take effort to bring down some targets but generally speaking as an allied player you are rarely killing these targets frontally - instead side shots are the order of the day. Side shots offer up a whole new crit table which is considerably more lethal. Between panic strikes from airplanes and careful positioning you often end up on the flanks where you can secure a kill reliably. Remember if you can 3v1 some of these big cats and throw in a moral strike you can quickly debilitate your target. The problem with this is the exponential increase in effort required to kill more than 1 big cat. So as an Allied player you want to pour on the pressure before too many threats pile up.

von Luck
 
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It will be difficult to attract players to mods so long as the issue with decks being deleted persists - especially minor mods. SITW is a very well-made mod for example, but many players are reluctant to try it out because they don't want to remake their decks. Hopefully Eugen will prioritize fixing this.
 
The Hitman said:
Do you feel that your careful planning is as rewarding now? I too enjoyed hunting big cats, but I liked ambushing them with something from a hedge. I feel like now I mostly get some sort of crit that gives them time to mitigate my maneuvers. I think the advantage should be clear to the player with better tactics.
Click to expand...

You've heard the phrase "No plan survives contact with the enemy?" or Eisenhower's maxim that "Plans are useless, but planning is vital"? I never have plans beyond my first contact with the enemy in the game. After that, it's all about how quickly I can adapt to what happened on that first contact and what I can do about it. If you've got a plan spoiled by the loss/critting of one tank (yours or your opponents') then you might wanna rethink your planning.

I like SD44 because it tends to favor the players that can react most effectively on a fluid fight, not the person who has the best "tactics."
 
The critic sisyem is better than the old sistem i agree that can be fustrating sometimes. By the amount of shoots that some tanks can absorb but the back to hell patch reajusted the ligth vehicle hp reducing part of this problem. Its not the perfect solution but was one of the best podible without totaly revamp mechanics or gameplay. As an exaple of the old sistem one time a 55 mm at american gun one shoted one king tiger at max range and i was not even microing it a 55 point at gun killed a 350 points tank without micro were is the fun on that?
 
gnef said:
As an exaple of the old sistem one time a 55 mm at american gun one shoted one king tiger at max range and i was not even microing it a 55 point at gun killed a 350 points tank without micro were is the fun on that?
Click to expand...

Wow!

That is almost exactly what I miss since the new system was implemented. Flanking a big unit and getting that one shot kill seems less common now. I found it fun and dynamic, whereas vehicle combat now is a bit too drawn out for my liking. I miss ranger marauders getting a panther kill and running away, or hold fire on multiple AT guns and then springing the trap.
 
Also, big shout out to von luck and damnt512.

Your advice was great and I did much better by following it. Didn't change my mind about the gameplay feeling fun, but it was nice to not get steamrolled anymore!

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be back to mp unless they revert back. I tried modding but don't even know how to open ndf files. Seems way over my head.
 
It does seem like infantery AT needs some buff, many times one shot is all they get and rolling a nonletal crit is a death sentence. Players should be punish for parking a tank next to a heavy cover that they have not cleared with infantery.
 
Try to hold fire on frontal engagements with these assets. Flanking fire is considerably more lethal and should be preferred over frontal arc. Attempt to bait a vehicle into turning or wait until it has turned. Additionally position your threats in such a way as to ensure even if one is being faced by your quarry you still have a side shot from the other.

von Luck
 
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