Secret Targaryens Cult

[Brodacious]

Important stuff

• So how long till we get a Secret Targaryens group ingame?
• Can all the characters in the universe join?
• Will it be lead by Ser Pounce, the Prince that was Promised?
• What should the effects of joining this group be? +10% plot armor or +200% chance for the character's mother to die in childbirth?

 

[CommanderL]

while this is a joke post

it would be interesting to make secret restoration societys

so there could be one in the north to get the starks back in power or a targ one

you could be sent on misson to bring more people into the society or to weaken the enemy of the society

 

[coolkid651]

I do agree with adding secret restoration society for if one of the major houses gets overthrown
it could work by allowing the restoration conspiracy to be formed by decision only by members of the house that was overthrown, with the one taking the decision becoming the leader of the society

the society would then be able to lay the ground work for the coming war by invite lords inside of the dejure kingdom/empire to the society, destabilize the realm by giving the usurper negative opinion modifiers, and by convincing the commons to support the return of their rightful lord which causes light infantry event troops to spawn on said province when the leader of the society decides to press their claim, causing all members of the society to declare a revolt on the usurper with the society leader as their leader and usurping all titles the usurper has when they succeed

this system could be used to allow the representation of the northern conspiracy, the blackfyre rebellions and the return of the Targaryens , as well as allow the generation of dynamic conspiracies

 

[blackninja9939]

Societies are not dynamic like that, they always exist from game start, yes they can be hidden but they have to be predefined in the code before you launch the game. You cannot generate a new society out of thing air in the middle of the game in the same way you can create a title etc.
Also even if we could we would not, this is already perfectly handled by plots and factions. There is no reason to make an entire society for this.

 

[DaBearGuy]

Societies are not dynamic like that, they always exist from game start, yes they can be hidden but they have to be predefined in the code before you launch the game. You cannot generate a new society out of thing air in the middle of the game in the same way you can create a title etc.
Also even if we could we would not, this is already perfectly handled by plots and factions. There is no reason to make an entire society for this.

That's actually not completely true, for example, if I am a Catholic ruler who has a Sunni Liege in the base game and I use the "Falsely Confess faith" option, I can then found a special secret society that would allow me to work towards the restoration of my faith to power within the Sunni Liege lands.

I think it would be a little bit difficult to handle the aforementioned events: (Blackfyre Rebellion, Possible House Restorations to LPs etc etc) but I don't think it would be altogether impossible since you only require a secret religion trait to found a new society in the base expansion.

Either way, I look forward to seeing what you do with the new mechanics and the like, and keep up the good work! I'm not an expert in anything regarding modding, but I can totally understand avoiding the pain and hassle of using societies like this when you already have working events in place.

 

[blackninja9939]

That's actually not completely true, for example, if I am a Catholic ruler who has a Sunni Liege in the base game and I use the "Falsely Confess faith" option, I can then found a special secret society that would allow me to work towards the restoration of my faith to power within the Sunni Liege lands.

I think it would be a little bit difficult to handle the aforementioned events: (Blackfyre Rebellion, Possible House Restorations to LPs etc etc) but I don't think it would be altogether impossible since you only require a secret religion trait to found a new society in the base expansion.

Either way, I look forward to seeing what you do with the new mechanics and the like, and keep up the good work! I'm not an expert in anything regarding modding, but I can totally understand avoiding the pain and hassle of using societies like this when you already have working events in place.

No you are still wrong, the society is still not dynamic. It is like I said, the society itself always exists it can just be hidden and have no members. Look in the society folder if you do not believe me.
All societies have to be predefined and cannot be made up completely new on the fly in game.

 

[DorlasAnther]

So, technically speaking, societies for secret Blackfyre and Targaryen (after Robert´s rebellion) supporters could be made? I think in these two cases, the game would benefit from actual secret societies instead of factions.

 

[blackninja9939]

So, technically speaking, societies for secret Blackfyre and Targaryen (after Robert´s rebellion) supporters could be made? I think in these two cases, the game would benefit from actual secret societies instead of factions.

They could be made yes, they won't be though.
I see people suggesting making loads of things into societies without actually fully thinking it through. What ranks would you have in a Blackfyre restoration society? What powers? What missions? What random events? What interaction with all the other systems? What about xyz dynasty who doesn't get a restoration society and someone thinks should for abc reasons?
They really do not need a society, plots and factions to place a claimant on the throne work perfectly fine. There is no need to add a whole society just for it.

 

[MrWeRD]

I have a fun idea, societies could be used as a way to ensure that certain families doesn't become extinct once they become unlanded, even after a hundred years (e: Blackfyre). Like, if the dynasty head of a house is unlanded/unmarried/male, female members can offer to have sex with them and produce legitimatized bastards or something to tide them over and make sure that their society actually have someone to support when they've got enough power.

Partly inspired by vanilla and partly by the Da Vinci Code.

 

[Lexo]

They could be made yes, they won't be though.
I see people suggesting making loads of things into societies without actually fully thinking it through. What ranks would you have in a Blackfyre restoration society? What powers? What missions? What random events? What interaction with all the other systems? What about xyz dynasty who doesn't get a restoration society and someone thinks should for abc reasons?
They really do not need a society, plots and factions to place a claimant on the throne work perfectly fine. There is no need to add a whole society just for it.

Come on you have to let everyone indulge there fantasy for now till the reality of the game limitations kciks in.. Let them fly and soar on wings of hope.........then burn them down when they have got bored of the idea.

 

[gorillacakes]

They could be made yes, they won't be though.
I see people suggesting making loads of things into societies without actually fully thinking it through. What ranks would you have in a Blackfyre restoration society? What powers? What missions? What random events? What interaction with all the other systems? What about xyz dynasty who doesn't get a restoration society and someone thinks should for abc reasons?
They really do not need a society, plots and factions to place a claimant on the throne work perfectly fine. There is no need to add a whole society just for it.

I've been following the disscusion on societies over at the citadel too and I have to say I agree with you. It doesn't really make a lot of sense for many things when there are more dynamic mechanics in game. The question of Blackfyre extinction being solved by secret society could best be served by having an event like the "Rise of the Shia" pop up once and a while. Even then if it were to be implemented it'd be best to have it as an option to be turned on/off. Regardless, a society wouldn't be the best way to approach it.

 

[blackninja9939]

I've been following the disscusion on societies over at the citadel too and I have to say I agree with you. It doesn't really make a lot of sense for many things when there are more dynamic mechanics in game. The question of Blackfyre extinction being solved by secret society could best be served by having an event like the "Rise of the Shia" pop up once and a while. Even then if it were to be implemented it'd be best to have it as an option to be turned on/off. Regardless, a society wouldn't be the best way to approach it.

I totally agree and honestly I was slightly fearful that this would happen once I saw societies as a new feature, people are asking for so many things to be made into societies when there is just really no need for them to be in the slightest. Ideas are presented, like I said before, without actually thinking about them in depth and just saying xyz would be a cool society without thinking about the different ranks/powers/missions/interactions needed to actually make a society.
My mantra for making something a society is that there has to be an actual big benefit to making them a society compared to just leaving them as being handled by existing systems and events. So things like the Alchemist's Guild and Iron Bank make perfect sense to be societies, things like the Faceless Men could go either way and more depends on how we want to implement them in how far can a ruler progress when joining them, things like Dragon Cults/Restoration Factions/Group from lore with only a few member or only courtiers are very unlikely as they just do not make sense to use the society system.

Societies are not a catch all replacement for everything in the game.

 

[gorillacakes]

I totally agree and honestly I was slightly fearful that this would happen once I saw societies as a new feature, people are asking for so many things to be made into societies when there is just really no need for them to be in the slightest. Ideas are presented, like I said before, without actually thinking about them in depth and just saying xyz would be a cool society without thinking about the different ranks/powers/missions/interactions needed to actually make a society.
My mantra for making something a society is that there has to be an actual big benefit to making them a society compared to just leaving them as being handled by existing systems and events. So things like the Alchemist's Guild and Iron Bank make perfect sense to be societies, things like the Faceless Men could go either way and more depends on how we want to implement them in how far can a ruler progress when joining them, things like Dragon Cults/Restoration Factions/Group from lore with only a few member or only courtiers are very unlikely as they just do not make sense to use the society system.

Societies are not a catch all replacement for everything in the game.

Indeed. To be honest I'm even nervous about the treasury function as some of the functions from M&M and AGOT, valyrian swords in particular, don't seem to seamlessly blend. From an outsiders perspective it might seem great in theory but a bit difficult to cross over, at least for the time being.

 

[blackninja9939]

Indeed. To be honest I'm even nervous about the treasury function as some of the functions from M&M and AGOT, valyrian swords in particular, don't seem to seamlessly blend. From an outsiders perspective it might seem great in theory but a bit difficult to cross over, at least for the time being.

Valyrian Swords as artifacts could work well, the only two things holding us back from doing it right now is 1) You cannot see the history of who has held an artifact and that is something that is very useful and 2) We have no artists to make the images for them...

 

[gorillacakes]

Valyrian Swords as artifacts could work well, the only two things holding us back from doing it right now is 1) You cannot see the history of who has held an artifact and that is something that is very useful and 2) We have no artists to make the images for them...

The history aspect was what I was thinking about. That's a shame about the artists. Do you only look for volunteers or is there an etiquette among modders for/against reaching out? One of the HIP/SWMHM guys is a pretty good artist. Might be a contact to keep in mind if it is of some help.

 

[SBerger]

Valyrian Swords as artifacts could work well, the only two things holding us back from doing it right now is 1) You cannot see the history of who has held an artifact and that is something that is very useful and 2) We have no artists to make the images for them...

3)It seems you can many of the same artifacts, i.e. Swords, crowns, and maces.

 

[blackninja9939]

The history aspect was what I was thinking about. That's a shame about the artists. Do you only look for volunteers or is there an etiquette among modders for/against reaching out? One of the HIP/SWMHM guys is a pretty good artist. Might be a contact to keep in mind if it is of some help.

I only really know the lead of HIP, don't know any of their other modders

3)It seems you can many of the same artifacts, i.e. Swords, crowns, and maces.

That is not a factor, you can limit how many can be equipped

 

[SBerger]

What I mean is you can theoretically have the same sword as someone else, i.e. Two Blackfyre's existing at the same time.

 

[HandicapdHippo]

What I mean is you can theoretically have the same sword as someone else, i.e. Two Blackfyre's existing at the same time.

That's not really an issue unique to the treasury though, i imagine without proper checks on events and such having multiple identical Valyrian swords could easily happen in the current system.

 

[blackninja9939]

What I mean is you can theoretically have the same sword as someone else, i.e. Two Blackfyre's existing at the same time.

Where do you get this idea from? We can just make checks in the script to prevent that, we already do that exact same thing with the trait versions.
Moving from traits to artifacts provides no gameplay changes at all except they are all organised into their separate interface and we can get even more control of them, it will not change how they are handled in the rest of the events at all in how they are seen by the player.