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Settlers in Eastern Europe

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Feb 27, 2003
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During the CK timespan lots of settlers/hospes arrived from Western Europe (France, HRE, Italian states, Flanders, etc...) to Central and Eastern Europe (mostly to Poland, Hungary and Bohemia). They brought in their advanced (agricultural) technology, played an important role in the development of towns and jurisdiction (for example the law of Magdeburg had a strong influence on the codes of law of the Hungarian towns).

Consequently they often succeeded to gain privileges and (territorial) autonomy from the ruler (like the Saxons in Transylvania).

Im wondering how the game will handle this question - it will be just an event or something more?
 
Yes, especially the Saxon colonization of Transylvania was particularly relevant and interesting. The German influence in Transylvania is noticeable chiefly in architecture; it’s a shame the Russians deported most of them in Siberia after the Second World War, where they were worked to annihilation in uranium mines.
 
well, the survivors were sold by Ceausescu to the Federal Republic in the 70s.....there are now very few Saxons living in Transylvania, but they are sure missed!:(
 
Speaking about colonization, the first Russian state was founded by a Viking, Ryurik...
 
Yes, Rus, that was the name of the Swedish tribe...

The Russians have always been more interested in politically exploiting their Slavic inheritance. They were never very enthusiastic about their Scandinavian bequest, and that somehow puzzles me.

It is also true that the Varagians spread all across Eastern Europe. Their expansion is not limited to the actual Russian territory. They were avid explorers, excellent merchants and splendid soldiers. Some of them fought for the Byzantines.
 
Originally posted by El Chupacabra
Yes, Rus, that was the name of the Swedish tribe...

The Russians have always been more interested in politically exploiting their Slavic inheritance. They were never very enthusiastic about their Scandinavian bequest, and that somehow puzzles me.

It is also true that the Varagians spread all across Eastern Europe. Their expansion is not limited to the actual Russian territory. They were avid explorers, excellent merchants and splendid soldiers. Some of them fought for the Byzantines.
Click to expand...

Don't be too fast at jumping into conclusions - this Norman Theory appeared several centuries ago and still very debatable and most Russian historians do not believe it. I would recommend you to come to Snowball CK FORUMS to scrutinize that with our forumites, especially Chernish, University Prof. of History.:)

P.S. There are several works which state that Rus stands for Old Slavonic word denoting "bear".
 
The Viking colonists in Russia were assimilated into the mass of the Slavic peoples. On the other hand, the German/Latin/etc.. settlers in Central Europe kept their identity, quite often they lived togheter within the towns.
The other difference is between the two cases is that the rulers of the Central European kingdoms stimulated the foreigners to immigrate by giving them more freedom and privileges than they had at home... (just as our king [Béla IV] did after the mongol invasion, which destroyed the majority of Hungary)
 
Thanks Khimaira, I will:)

"(just as our king [Béla IV] did after the mongol invasion, which destroyed the majority of Hungary)"...Gerco, I thought Magyars are a Mongolian tribe?!?
 
Originally posted by El Chupacabra

"(just as our king [Béla IV] did after the mongol invasion, which destroyed the majority of Hungary)"...Gerco, I thought Magyars are a Mongolian tribe?!?
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:confused:

They are (or rather, were) most certainly not... The Magyars' origin is somewhere in the (later) Russian steppes to the west of the Urals. The Mongols were from, well... Mongolia ;)
 
Originally posted by Havard
:confused:

They are (or rather, were) most certainly not... The Magyars' origin is somewhere in the (later) Russian steppes to the west of the Urals. The Mongols were from, well... Mongolia ;)
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Well, Havard is right, you'd better seek the original homeland of the Magyars (and the other finno-ugric people) around the (south-) eastern part of the Urals. - But I have to say, there is a debate among the Hungarian historians concerning our original homeland...
During the migration of the Hungarians from the Urals to the Carpathian basin they were in contact (through one thousand years or more) with several Turkish-nomadic tribes. This is the cause, why the Hungarians adopted the nomadic lifestyle (and warfare - de saggitis Ungarorum libera nos, Domine - this was a common pray in Europe in the 10th century) on the steppes.
 
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Khimaira wrote: "Don't be too fast at jumping into conclusions - this Norman Theory appeared several centuries ago and still very debatable and most Russian historians do not believe it. I would recommend you to come to Snowball CK FORUMS to scrutinize that with our forumites, especially Chernish, University Prof. of History"

Yes, Stalin did not like current history in Russia as he was afraid that the viking influence on Russian history could give Hitler something to show that Germanic peoples were somehow "superior". Thus Stalin commanded that an alternative history was to be proposed and that the vikings' founding of Russia was to be referred to as the "norman theory".

The Stalinist heritage is still strong with Russian historians.
 
Originally posted by Conrad
Khimaira wrote: "Don't be too fast at jumping into conclusions - this Norman Theory appeared several centuries ago and still very debatable and most Russian historians do not believe it. I would recommend you to come to Snowball CK FORUMS to scrutinize that with our forumites, especially Chernish, University Prof. of History"

Yes, Stalin did not like current history in Russia as he was afraid that the viking influence on Russian history could give Hitler something to show that Germanic peoples were somehow "superior". Thus Stalin commanded that an alternative history was to be proposed and that the vikings' founding of Russia was to be referred to as the "norman theory".

The Stalinist heritage is still strong with Russian historians.
Click to expand...

YEP the same for Charle Le Magne >> HE didn't want to be the emperor :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Conrad
Khimaira wrote: "Don't be too fast at jumping into conclusions - this Norman Theory appeared several centuries ago and still very debatable and most Russian historians do not believe it. I would recommend you to come to Snowball CK FORUMS to scrutinize that with our forumites, especially Chernish, University Prof. of History"

Yes, Stalin did not like current history in Russia as he was afraid that the viking influence on Russian history could give Hitler something to show that Germanic peoples were somehow "superior". Thus Stalin commanded that an alternative history was to be proposed and that the vikings' founding of Russia was to be referred to as the "norman theory".

The Stalinist heritage is still strong with Russian historians.
Click to expand...

Ehe-he, where did you find this nonsense may i ask? The Norman Theory faced the strict oppposition as early as 19 th century and i actually base my comments on the works of two major Russian historians Soloviov and Klyuchevskoy who died long before Stalin came to power. And this Stalin-Commie nonsense just shows how much you were brainwashed - not everything in Russia is related to Stalin, there are lots of other outstanding people i dare say.
 
Khimaira wrote: "Ehe-he, where did you find this nonsense may i ask? The Norman Theory faced the strict oppposition as early as 19 th century and i actually base my comments on the works of two major Russian historians Soloviov and Klyuchevskoy who died long before Stalin came to power. And this Stalin-Commie nonsense just shows how much you were brainwashed - not everything in Russia is related to Stalin, there are lots of other outstanding people i dare say."

I'm married into the family of a Russian history professor. It is from her and her colleagues that I've learnt about Stalin's wishes about Russian history writing. The opposition might be older, as more nationalistic scholars must have found it offensive, ever since the national romanticist movements started in Europe.
 
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I don’t know what the historians say, but once one takes a stroll down the Nevsky Propekt in Saint Petersburg, one sees the resemblance between the Scandinavians and the Russians.:)
 
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