Should honorable AI rulers use the Fabricate Claim task?

[EphemeralToast]

The game clearly signals that what you're doing when you're using your priest to get a claim on a neighbor's land is a pack of lies and trumped-up nonsense, I mean it's even called "fabricate". Is this an action that high-honor AI characters (Just, Honest, etc.) should be using when it's clearly... not honorable?

Yes, there is a tale of woe and butthurt behind this question, but I won't bore you with it, just curious what people think.

 

[solamyas]

An honest person could act against someoneelse's interest if they belive they are right, so AI too should be able to fabricate claims.

 

[Apocal]

I think Ambitious trait should give a higher chance of it but include a fair dose of stress due to Honest, Just, etc.

 

[Delterius]

I'd be careful with 'high honor' as a concept. Just AND Honest? Yeah that character probably wouldn't use fabrication (at least on the face of it). But how about some bespoke combinations? Honest and Arbitrary. Or Ambitious and Just. A character can be more than the sum of their parts. Or they can act slightly out of line due to circumstances.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

It should, just at the cost of stress, given you're still a medieval ruler so will still be expanding. Given ck's limited war system, you need something for the ai to expand

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Even if an ai has high honor, the opinion of neighbours should play a role in decision for fabrication.

 

[Rex Hiemis]

I think not.

 

[Voy]

The devs use AI attitude value based on combination of traits to measure personality, not single traits. So it's a moot discussion, really.

Asking the devs to use this attitude value in more interaction is valid though.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

The devs use AI attitude value based on combination of traits to measure personality, not single traits. So it's a moot discussion, really.

Asking the devs to use this attitude value in more interaction is valid though.

It seems like the ai doesn’t seem to act very much in line with their personality.

 

[EphemeralToast]

I'd be careful with 'high honor' as a concept. Just AND Honest? Yeah that character probably wouldn't use fabrication (at least on the face of it). But how about some bespoke combinations? Honest and Arbitrary. Or Ambitious and Just. A character can be more than the sum of their parts. Or they can act slightly out of line due to circumstances.

I'm using "high honor" as a concept because that's how the game does it. Traits like Just and Honest (and some others to a lesser extent) will give the AI a boost to Honorability in their personality, and this is used to determine many things about how they act and what decisions they take, from murder to cheating to war declaration. If they are Ambitious and Just, or Honest and Arbitrary, they are not likely to end up as Very Honorable; in fact Arbitrary is the most Dishonorable personality trait. That's fine, and not part of my complaint.

My complaint is that AI characters who ARE Very Honorable, via any trait combination, are very unlikely to ever murder, cheat, steal from their liege or abuse their regency, etc., BUT it seems as though they are, currently, perfectly fine with making up a load of claptrap to steal someone else's land. Seems weird to me! I am not able to look at the game code so maybe I'm wrong but I observe Very Honorable AIs fabricating claims frequently in my games.

P.S. the curious may find a breakdown of which traits contribute to an honorable or dishonorable personality on the wiki: https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Traits#Personality_traits But the AI personality is also handily listed in-game under their portrait.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

I'm using "high honor" as a concept because that's how the game does it. Traits like Just and Honest (and some others to a lesser extent) will give the AI a boost to Honorability in their personality, and this is used to determine many things about how they act and what decisions they take, from murder to cheating to war declaration. If they are Ambitious and Just, or Honest and Arbitrary, they are not likely to end up as Very Honorable; in fact Arbitrary is the most Dishonorable personality trait. That's fine, and not part of my complaint.

My complaint is that AI characters who ARE Very Honorable, via any trait combination, are very unlikely to ever murder, cheat, steal from their liege or abuse their regency, etc., BUT it seems as though they are, currently, perfectly fine with making up a load of claptrap to steal someone else's land. Seems weird to me! I am not able to look at the game code so maybe I'm wrong but I observe Very Honorable AIs fabricating claims frequently in my games.

P.S. the curious may find a breakdown of which traits contribute to an honorable or dishonorable personality on the wiki: https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Traits#Personality_traits But the AI personality is also handily listed in-game under their portrait.

I think that high honor has a limit to what it will tolerate before the person may do some less honorable things. My thought to include opinions into whether or not an ai character will do some less honorable things should be used in conjunction with the honorability level.

 

[Kamis51]

An honest person could act against someoneelse's interest if they belive they are right, so AI too should be able to fabricate claims.

but less