Show me the money!

[ppga]

I have just had an interesting experience as Spain in IGC 2.3 (free Brittany & Super Hansa). Normally annexing the Aztec empire provides a pretty good revenue boost, but this time I'm actually getting less money after than before. No changes to stability or anything else. I annexed France and Brittany previously, and before annexing the Aztecs I had an income of around 680, and then the following years it actually dropped. Any ideas?

 

[unmerged(1064)]

A stability drop would be my only guess. Going from +3 to +2 would reduce your income by 20% in the standard game. The IGC allows other income/stability effects, with "Chaos Hurts" for example. I don't know the details of these options.

 

[unmerged(3440)]

Decrease in trade?

Perhaps you lost some monopolies

 

[ppga]

1498 Spain + France + Brittany + Milan
=629 ducats
1506 Spain + France + Brittany + Milan + Aztecs
=620 ducats (Milan and Picardie in revolt)

Stability +3 both times, no trade monopolies (tech not high enough)

 

[unmerged(3440)]

Did you build lots of armies and/or navies?

 

[State Machine]

No idea. Check this diagram to see what monies flow in and out of your treasury. Maybe it will give you an idea.

 

[Shadowstrike]

*Reads diagram*

*Head explodes*

 

[State Machine]

Oop, forgot the warning.

"If you click this link, you agree that you are entering the dark side of EU of your own free will, and acknoledge that you are currently or will shortly be insane."

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by ppga
I annexed France and Brittany previously, and before annexing the Aztecs I had an income of around 680, and then the following years it actually dropped.

Well firstly, what do you mean by income? Census tax? Monthly income? Or the whole job lot for a full year? Milan being in revolt is going to cost you a lot of census tax - it's a big city. As for the huge amount of gold revenues that you *are* getting (unless you had a no-gold-for-12-months random event) it's all going into research, unless you messed around with your financial sliders recently.

 

[ppga]

I'm talking census tax, January 1st. As I understand it your annual (January 1st) income is more than just census tax, but based on province income as well. In any event, I would not expect Milan to be worth more than the Aztec Empire, although I guess you never know. I also loaded a saved game where Milan wasn't revolting, with similar revenues occurring on January 1st. As to the gold income, one thing that worries me is that inflation has also stayed the same (about 4%), before and after, when it should be way up there, although I believe that gold inflation is related to empire size, thus Spain+France should be less inflationary than Spain all by herself. Although the vagaries of the game engine escape me, I've been playing EU for a long time now, and what has happened seems anomolous enough that I am wondering what's up. I have actually re-loaded and re-conquered the Aztecs with the same results, and even with no rebellious provinces I receive less income on January 1st before I conquer the Aztecs than after.

 

[Vulture]

Originally posted by State Machine
No idea. Check this diagram to see what monies flow in and out of your treasury. Maybe it will give you an idea.

That's a commercial for your own work
But it sure is NICE work

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by ppga
I'm talking census tax, January 1st. As I understand it your annual (January 1st) income is more than just census tax, but based on province income as well. In any event, I would not expect Milan to be worth more than the Aztec Empire, although I guess you never know. I also loaded a saved game where Milan wasn't revolting, with similar revenues occurring on January 1st. As to the gold income, one thing that worries me is that inflation has also stayed the same (about 4%), before and after, when it should be way up there, although I believe that gold inflation is related to empire size, thus Spain+France should be less inflationary than Spain all by herself. Although the vagaries of the game engine escape me, I've been playing EU for a long time now, and what has happened seems anomolous enough that I am wondering what's up. I have actually re-loaded and re-conquered the Aztecs with the same results, and even with no rebellious provinces I receive less income on January 1st before I conquer the Aztecs than after.

Census taxes are all there is to annual tax income and gold is monthly. Which makes Milan, when it comes to anual tax income, just about more worth than the Aztec provicnes or thereabouts.

 

[State Machine]

I agree with the fact that Milan in revolt will lose a lot of income. The gold from the Aztecs makes it harder to compare since is comes in as "gold" income. Those Aztec provinces don't produce much tax or production income. Milan produces a lot of tax and production income in addition to putting a lot of trade value into some CoT.

Thx Vulture, I was being modest...

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by ppga
I'm talking census tax, January 1st. As I understand it your annual (January 1st) income is more than just census tax, but based on province income as well. In any event, I would not expect Milan to be worth more than the Aztec Empire, although I guess you never know.

According to the manual, annual income is partly based on province income. Yet another example of the manual being misleading Census tax is all she wrote. And Milan's a big ole city, so it will make a sizeable dent in your census income to have it in rebel hands. (Then again, Tenochtitlan is a pretty big city, but I don't think big enough to offset Milan. Don't have the numbers to hand to check... you can do so in game quite easily, because census tax is directly proportional to population. The city with most people turns in most tax.)

 

[BiB]

Census tax has nowt to do with population numbers The BAse tax value is what matters here. Modified by religion , improvements and stab but not pop. Milan with 5000 inhabitants with the same other situations will yield the same census tax.

 

[State Machine]

Oh goody, another population argument.

BiB, Heyesey, and I are all saming the same thing. Milan is worth a lot, and could rival the Aztecs as a whole.

For exact rules (like Heyesey says, rulebook is wrong) just pay attention to my diagram, though it is off by some unknown percentages that are religion related (and no, they are not what is in the rules or in the rollovers on the screen). The diagram is correct for Catholic.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Originally posted by BiB
Census tax has nowt to do with population numbers

Score one for nutty translations. If it's not based on the population, it's not a census tax is it

If it's base tax value, then Milan is probably worth more than the whole Aztec kingdom put together... so get it back from the rebels

 

[unmerged(2073)]

Probably two things. Firstly Milan and Picardie are in revolt and Picardie is probably the equivalent of one of the large Aztec provinces. IIRC, they tend to have troop raising capacity of around 3-4k whereas Milan is in the 11k. Broadly speaking troop raising capacity is 1k for each 2D of census tax (rounded down) so the simple formula is Milan + Picardie > Michoagan, Zacatecas, Tuxpan and Atlixco when it comes to Census tax.

The 9D difference is probably also because you are catholic and I think they have higher tax incomes (+20% ?)

 

[ppga]

I think I may have overlooked the obvious, in which case my apologies. Census tax is not collected from enemy controlled provinces, obviously, but how about besieged provinces? Reloading once more I noticed that Paris was besieged by rebels, and obviously not receiving tax income from both Milan and Paris would pretty much explain what happened.

 

[BiB]

During sieges often looting takes place, which should hamper ur income