• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Olligarchy

Grand Prince
93 Badges
Dec 19, 2011
1.361
1.084
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • War of the Vikings
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • March of the Eagles
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
644fba.jpg
Christmas 1454, London, Kingdom of England

Since his marriage to Margaret of Anjou, King Henry VI has remained a rather docile king, allowing himself and his family to be pushed around by the 'Yorkist' faction led by Richard, the 3rd Duke of York whom means to see either himself or his son Edward be crowned King in stead of the weakling they have now.

Though the King is weak, both in body and spirit, his wife Queen Margaret has revealed herself to be a cunning politician and an anchor for the Lancastrian loyalists to rally to. Since his marriage to Henry in 1445 she has not only used her not inconsiderable wealth to improve the fortifications surrounding London, but also amass a large retinue loyal only to her and her infant son. In addition, she has pressed for the advancement of loyal men such as Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham and Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland.

Despite her vigorous advancement of the royal cause and her many allies, not all his well however. As a woman she can never hope to rule in her own right, and the recent comatose state of Henry has caused many ambitious men such as the Neville's of Salisbury and Warwick to inch closer to the Yorkist side out of fear and ambition. These two men, some of the richest in all of England not only are father and son, but control the central castle of Warwick which can decide if and when one can cross from one side to England.

Even as Henry slowly stirs on Christmas day, awakened from his illness to find his power base eroded with Richard of York placed as his Regent, to the far north the King of the Scots, James III senses an opportunity to make gains against his ancestral rivals by aiding a claimant malleable enough to his ambitions, and in the South the Capets of France are stirring...

---

The Premise

Hello and welcome to The Wars of the Roses, my first attempt at moderating a game on these forums. The game will, as implied from the title set about attempting to model the Wars of the Roses fought in England between 1455–1487. The game model will be the same as many of @XVG's games, with the focus being on characters and narratives rather than on countries and stats.

Joining the game

Joining is simple; just post a list of three of your favourite choices from the period to play as. After I've had enough interested parties I'll divide up the roles, attempting to be fair, though there will obviously be some bias for giving the most important positions to players I know can deliver.

For the purposes of the game, I am disallowing King Henry as a pick, unless someone can give me a really good argument as to why they should play a completely ineffectual and most of the time comatose ruler without unbalancing the game. Otherwise if you wish to lead the House of Lancaster, choose Queen Margaret of Anjou. I would also prefer that the most notable roles be filled before people start creating OC's.

Once the picks have been made, you may post a fuller biography about your character of choice.

For those that don’t make the first cut: never fear! The beautiful thing about the period is that characters rise, fall and... die, making openings for new characters to enter the fray. Characters in minority (younger than 14) will be disallowed at game start, but can become eligible choices as time progresses.

Also: no... you can't play as King of Scots or France. I MIGHT open them to players later on in the game if nothing interesting is happening, but no promises on that front.


Required characters:


Queen Margaret of Anjou

Duke Richard of York

Dukes of Buckingham & Somerset

Earls of Warwick, Salisbury, Northumberland and Devon

Lord de Clifford

Rules, Orders and Updates

This time the game is considerably ‘lighter’ than some of the games I've seen, mostly to reduce my burden and to allow me dip in gently for my first time. Stats will simply put be as small as possible, with my recording two factors for each noble house: A rough income in £ and the number and type of levies available. A less obvious stat will track notable fortifications and cities within the houses sphere. Stats will be PM'd to player before start of the game and updated as the game progresses.

The realm stats can be somewhat changed with orders. Each landed leader (in most cases leader of a house) has a province-wide realm order to be used for large-scale realm-wide actions once per year. The generals, sons and officials of each state also have an administrative order to handle their official position. Then, each and every character will also have one personal order, to be used on furthering their own position, managing their own influence, intrigues and wealth. So in short. Rulers get 2+1 orders, officials of any sort 1+1 and all the others 1. Remember, a multitude of personal actions (which don't affect others or your stats) can also be done via IC, contact me if you're unsure what sort of category your order would fall upon.

War is a different thing, and is dealt with ‘war plans’. War plans are used for every military action, for recruitment and the bloodshed itself. Large construction programs that permanently alter the balance of power, such as a huge new fort are normal actions though, while some quick field fortifications belong to the war plans. Every character in command of a military force may use these in a time of war, and the rulers and general commanders are to allocate command to various player and NPC lieutenants and officers. Wars will mostly be dealt with in minis, so war plans usually have their own due dates. The length and actions of a war plan are technically unlimited, but keep it within reason and within the period. You won't be inventing rapid fire muskets in this period.


You're free to make use of IRC, PM's or whatever to make secret pacts, though for roleplay purposes I'd appreciate them being public on the thread itself. Should anyone make use of the information found within without due cause, they will be dealt with severely. If you wish to however keep your plans secret, do keep me in the loop as to your secret alliances and such.

Orders will be sent to me via PM with this format:
Order said:
To: Olligarchy
Subject: [WotR] – Character Title Character Name
Fluff text if ye like
Realm Order: [1 Per Year for rulers, can be spent anytime]
Administrative Order: [4 per year for those with offices such as Lord Lieutenancy of Calais, seat on Privy Council etc]
Personal Order: [4 Per year for everyone]
War Plan: [4 per year for everyone with troops or commands]

Using the same message chain/conversation for each turn's orders, mini orders and quick questions is the best for sake of clarity.

Each turn will represent a single season (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter for those who live in places without all four) and will feature mini-updates of various length with a final larger update to be posted at the end of each year. The game will begin in Q4 1454, Christmas with a special 'Court Event' which sets the stage for the rest of the game. King Henry will awaken and all player characters are present for it... ready to declare their allegiance to either the House of Lancaster or the House of York.

IRC

There will be an IRC. Join Coldfront and type /join #wotr to get latest glimpse into Paradox forum player insanity.

Battles
Due to the nature of the game, I've begun thinking of expanding the traditional battle mechanics of our games a bit for the purposes of this game.

I'm going to call the 'normal' method of resolving battles as 'Normal' Battles. If you've ever played character or nation games you'll know the drill: GM with help of some dice and the war plans of players puts together the end result of armed conflict.

Expanded battles are something I got to thinking as I was planning the game itself and would define them as such:
Lets say that Queen Margaret and Duke of York have both ordered in their War Plans for the season for their retinues to attack a particular town, resulting in a battle between their forces before the city walls. What would happen next is a mini-update from me describing the battlefield and giving a rough description of both hosts, after which there would be 2-3 days for the allied players to plan and consult each other on how the battle itself should be fought.

After those days are up, the players would send me a new "Battle Plan" each, with the player having contributed greatest number of troops for each Host being the 'General' that comes up with an overall plan for all parts of the army, and dividing up the 'flanks' to other players to command. These 'flanks' would be: The Vanguard (cavalry and skirmishers), Centre, Left, Right and Reserve, with each flanks commander having their own battle-plan for their role in the battle.

Once the time is up, or all battle plans have been received by me, I'd put together a grand tale of the battle, describing the heroism and villainy of both sides.

This would also allow for 'Courtier' level characters with no troops of their own to write down where they want to fight in the battle and how many risks they're willing to take.

So let me know, if you prefer the normal or expanded battle idea.

I'd appreciate it if everyone interested would make their voice known and vote in this poll to let me know if they prefer traditional battles, or the expanded versions.
 
Last edited:
Reserved for list of players

Lancastrians (Red Rose)
Queen Margaret of Anjou - @Sithlent
Humphrey Stafford,1st Duke of Buckingham - @Korona
Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset - @MastahCheef117
Thomas Courtenay, 5th Earl of Devon - @aedan777
Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland - @LatinKaiser
John Clifford, 9th Baron de Clifford - @oxfordroyale

Yorkists (White Rose)
Richard of York, 3rd Duke of York - @Watercress
Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick - @Sneakyflaps
Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury - @luc124

Non-critical, yet interesting lilies
James Douglas, formerly 9th Earl of Douglas - (Becomes available in 1455 as Courtier)
James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, 1st Earl of Wiltshire - @DragonOfAtlantis
John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk - @bakerydog
Edward of York - (Becomes available in 1456 as Heir to York)
Sir William Bonville of Shute -
John Howard, OTL 1st Duke of Norfolk - (Courtier to York)
Thomas Stanley, OTL 1st Earl of Derby - (Courtier, inherits Barony of Stanley and Kingdom over Mann in 1459)
Thomas Bourchier, Archbishop of Canterbury - (Courtier)
Henry Holland, 3rd Duke of Exeter -
Edmund Grey, Lord Grey (OTL 1st Earl of Kent )-
John Stourton, 1st Baron of Stourton - @Myoon


If you have an interesting character you want to play, do pitch him to me!
 
Last edited:
1) Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury
2) Humphrey Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham
3) John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
 
Richard of York, 3rd Duke of York,
Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick
Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham
 
Posting this thing again at Luc's suggestion to draw attention to it:
Battles
Due to the nature of the game, I've begun thinking of expanding the traditional battle mechanics of our games a bit for the purposes of this game.

I'm going to call the 'normal' method of resolving battles as 'Normal' Battles. If you've ever played character or nation games you'll know the drill: GM with help of some dice and the war plans of players puts together the end result of armed conflict.

Expanded battles are something I got to thinking as I was planning the game itself and would define them as such:
Lets say that Queen Margaret and Duke of York have both ordered in their War Plans for the season for their retinues to attack a particular town, resulting in a battle between their forces before the city walls. What would happen next is a mini-update from me describing the battlefield and giving a rough description of both hosts, after which there would be 2-3 days for the allied players to plan and consult each other on how the battle itself should be fought.

After those days are up, the players would send me a new "Battle Plan" each, with the player having contributed greatest number of troops for each Host being the 'General' that comes up with an overall plan for all parts of the army, and dividing up the 'flanks' to other players to command. These 'flanks' would be: The Vanguard (cavalry and skirmishers), Centre, Left, Right and Reserve, with each flanks commander having their own battle-plan for their role in the battle.

Once the time is up, or all battle plans have been received by me, I'd put together a grand tale of the battle, describing the heroism and villainy of both sides.

This would also allow for 'Courtier' level characters with no troops of their own to write down where they want to fight in the battle and how many risks they're willing to take.

So let me know, if you prefer the normal or expanded battle idea.

I'd appreciate it if everyone interested would make their voice known and vote in this poll to let me know if they prefer traditional battles, or the expanded versions.
 
Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick
John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
Humphrey Stafford,1st Duke of Buckingham
 
1. Richard Neville, 5th Earl of Salisbury
2. Edmund Beaufort, 2nd Duke of Somerset
3. Edward of York
 
1. John Clifford, 9th Baron de Clifford
2. James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, 1st Earl of Wiltshire
3. John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
 
1. Thomas Courtenay, 5th Earl of Devon
2. Henry Holland, 3rd Duke of Exeter
3. Edmund Grey, Lord Grey
 
1. Sir William Bonville, 1st Baron Bonville
2. His Eminence Thomas Bourchier, Cardinal, Archbishop of Canterbury, and Primate of All England
3. Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland
 
I've begun to divide up the critical and some non-critical roles, to the best of my ability giving people what they want whilst making sure we fill the critical seats.

@Korona, would you be willing to roll with Buckingham, or want the Archbishop?

And to anyone else watching: keep 'em coming if you want non-critical roles or be on the waiting list! I aim to get the game thread up saturday or sunday.
 
1. John de Mowbray, 3rd Duke of Norfolk
2. Thomas Stanley (courier)
3. James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, 1st Earl of Wiltshire