Spell Research is confusing

[aroddo]

I can't figure out what to do to get specific spells. Once I research a spell, I get a new research option that seems completely random.
So I tend to research the cheap crappy spells I'm likely never going to use anyway, just to get a new research slot.

Also, far too often I get new spells to research where I already got the larger versions. Also not exactly fun.

 

[davidwalsh]

As far as I know spell research is random. Personally I like that.

 

[xeren]

I believe the research is progressive, with randomization within your current 'tier' of spells

That is, you generally progress from really basic spells (light heal, weak fireball, frost enchant) to really powerful spells (full heal, armageddon, vampiric enchant)

But along the way, your progress is randomized around the general spell level that you currently have. I suppose it would be possible to only pick one slot and eventually research everything, leaving the other four research slots as the four spells they started as, but in practice, because of research costs, it tends to be more turn efficient to pick up stuff that you can acquire quickly and use right away - with exceptions for very needed spells of course.

There is no way to get a specific spell however, other than cranking up your research so that you earn spells more quickly in general - you will always earn all of the basic spells eventually. God spells and ancient spells require god favor or looting portal monster lairs however.

 

[cryptc]

Also, I've noticed that spells specific to gods usually appear quickly if you have favor with them. Like if you pick favor to a god as a perk, you will usually get the special spells on the adjoining gods as researchable spells very quickly (often from beginning of game)

 

[xeren]

Ah yes, that's definitely true - I think god spells have an 'immediate' priority, in that as soon as you have enough favor, they'll appear in an open slot (which is generally a good thing, because the god spells are almost all more powerful than the 'basic' version, or have entirely unique effects)

 

[aroddo]

and the non-divine spells are completely random, i assume?

 

[cryptc]

Ah yes, that's definitely true - I think god spells have an 'immediate' priority, in that as soon as you have enough favor, they'll appear in an open slot (which is generally a good thing, because the god spells are almost all more powerful than the 'basic' version, or have entirely unique effects)

Not sure about immediate... But definately given high priority...

Non divine spells are random, but I think there is some sort of weighting for lower level spells... I often get the very simplest ones from start, but much more rarely the powerful ones (although that could also be because of the comparative number of each)

 

[xeren]

Yeah, they're random within your current research level I think. I don't believe it's completely random, there seems to be a very noticable progression, where I see roughly the same general spells at any given point in the game. It's not exactly the same, and sometimes you'll get a strong spell a little early (or late).

Really the spell research system is one of the few things I don't have many gripes with :v

And if you can always play the Elves if you want a huge Research income to acquire spells rapidly. Or you could abuse the diplomatic AI and trade spells constantly, either one

 

[osserpete]

So I tend to research the cheap crappy spells I'm likely never going to use anyway, just to get a new research slot.

Also, far too often I get new spells to research where I already got the larger versions. Also not exactly fun.

You may not be aware that when you are offered the chance to research a new spell, by selecting any of the spells offered you can remove those spells from the research list. So if you're being offered 5 spells and you think 4 of them are of no use to you then simply select one of the unwanted spells to research, as if you normally would. Then immediately, reopen the spell research window and select the next spell you DON'T want. Continue like this and leave any of one(s) you think you will use to be your last choice. Finally choose the spell (one of the spells) you want and wait for that to finish researching. After it has finished researching you will find the other slots now have new spells in them.
However, be aware that the 'discarded' spells WILL NOT ever reappear for research. They may still be acquired though by raiding monster lairs or trading with other mages. I'm sure that some may think this is an exploit, but given the random nature of spell availability and that the unwanted spells 'disappear', i'm cool with it unless the Dev's tell us it's an unintended bug. :unsure:

 

[unmerged(492719)]

You may not be aware that when you are offered the chance to research a new spell, by selecting any of the spells offered you can remove those spells from the research list. So if you're being offered 5 spells and you think 4 of them are of no use to you then simply select one of the unwanted spells to research, as if you normally would. Then immediately, reopen the spell research window and select the next spell you DON'T want. Continue like this and leave any of one(s) you think you will use to be your last choice. Finally choose the spell (one of the spells) you want and wait for that to finish researching. After it has finished researching you will find the other slots now have new spells in them.
However, be aware that the 'discarded' spells WILL NOT ever reappear for research. They may still be acquired though by raiding monster lairs or trading with other mages. I'm sure that some may think this is an exploit, but given the random nature of spell availability and that the unwanted spells 'disappear', i'm cool with it unless the Dev's tell us it's an unintended bug. :unsure:

That sounds majorly like a bug actually. I really doubt they had the idea that switching spell research would silently remove the old spell from your research options forever more.

 

[unmerged(630172)]

That is definitely a bug, you can tell because it only happens, most commonly when you reload a 'glitched 'save. NormallY the spells you can research are fixed and stay the same.

 

[aroddo]

can't we just have a better spell research system?
The one from Master of Magic was next to perfect. And since they copied nearly everything else from that game, they should get that, too.

 

[osserpete]

That is definitely a bug, you can tell because it only happens, most commonly when you reload a 'glitched 'save. NormallY the spells you can research are fixed and stay the same.

It always 'works' for me and reloading games will not 'bring back' the old spells.