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TheLand

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Dec 19, 2004
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You can get the 0.3 release of the SPQR mod from...

http://www.mediafire.com/?ejnvwmyqczu

SUMMARY

SPQR makes big changes to the way you run your Empire.

Every province now has a citizenship level as well as a culture and religion.
FULL CITIZENS represent the original home provinces of your nation, which dictate the politics. They are relatively rare in big empires, and give the most tax revenue. Because many citizens are expected to serve in the military you get the bulk of your manpower from these provinces.
ALLIED PROVINCES represent areas full of cities and settlements which area allied to you. They pay the bulk of their taxes to you, and contribute some manpower to your armies.
IMPERIAL PROVINCES represent places which your Empire governs directly. You get a bit more revenue from these provinces than you do from allies, but half as much manpower.
TRIBAL PROVINCES are uncivilized areas where your colonists co-exist with barbarians. Their hardy population produces plenty of soldiers, but relatively little tax. If you are careful these provinces will, in time, become Imperial Provinces. If you aren't, they will be a constant problem with barbarian uprisings.
CIVILIZED TRIBAL PROVINCES are an intermedite step between tribal and Imperial provinces.
There is also a temporary "Conquered Province" citizenship level, for citizens conquered by another power. CONQUERED PROVINCES give you loot and slaves until they eventually become Imperial or Tribal provinces in your empire.
Provinces move between categories as population, culture, barbarian power, and civilization value change. The final step from Allied to Full Citizens (giving you a massive manpower boost) is very difficult and causes a large stability hit.

CULTURE CONVERSION is much slower for large empires, and requires a variety of risks to be taken to succeed.

REVOLTS have been reworked. Your full-citizenship provinces will very rarely revolt. Other provinces, however, run the risk of Uprisings where the province generates serious numbers of Rebel Scum. Uprisings, unless quickly crushed, spread easily to neighbouring provinces. They can even lead to provinces defecting to neighbouring nations. This means you have to be very careful with valuable Allied and Imperial provinces.

STABILITY has also been reworked. Rather than producing global modifiers, the chance of each proince becoming Rich or Poor, Calm or Angry, depends on your stability level (as well as governor skill). These effects can persist even when your stability has changed. So if you spend ten years at -3 Stability, you can expect to be feeling the effects of the poor stability - low revenue and high revolt risk - for several years afterwards.

MORE NATIONS are created by event, including one entirely new nation of Media-Atropatene (thanks to the Rome Improved Map Project for the graphics). If you have an empire in the Near or Middle East, you had better be careful to appoint loyal governors. Also, new nations get troops in their initial setup to stop them being strangled at birth. Parthia gets LOTS of free troops.

GOVERNOR APPOINTMENT can be automated for the player at game-start. You can pick random allocation of characters to vacant jobs, or "optimal"allocation (high-finesse characters first), or no auto-allocation at all.

RELIGION has been enhanced with new Rituals events, which fire for your Chief Priest, and give extra bonuses or penalties to stability and warfare. Unlike the vanilla Omens these are not entirely under your control.
 
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kristoff said:
Sorry for trivial question, but I've tried SPQR 3.0 for the first time. Where can I see current citizenship status/level of a province? I hope my install of SPQR went OK...

after the initial setup - running in the first months of a game - you will find a unique icon representing the citizenship-status in the cityview-screen with description by mouseover-effects.
 
This note seemed to imply the improved map project was in this mod.

"MORE NATIONS are created by event, including one entirely new nation of Media-Atropatene (thanks to the Rome Improved Map Project for the graphics). If you have an empire in the Near or Middle East, you had better be careful to appoint loyal governors. Also, new nations get troops in their initial setup to stop them being strangled at birth. Parthia gets LOTS of free troops."

The "(thanks to the Rome Improved Map Project for the graphics)" fooled me.
 
Necro said:
This note seemed to imply the improved map project was in this mod.

"MORE NATIONS are created by event, including one entirely new nation of Media-Atropatene (thanks to the Rome Improved Map Project for the graphics). If you have an empire in the Near or Middle East, you had better be careful to appoint loyal governors. Also, new nations get troops in their initial setup to stop them being strangled at birth. Parthia gets LOTS of free troops."

The "(thanks to the Rome Improved Map Project for the graphics)" fooled me.

for further work it is possible, that a special spqr-version is playable at the improved map - i checked it in the last hours and it seems to be senseful. the thanks to rimp goes for the flag of the new nation media-atropatene, which is used in spqr.
 
I want to report a bug.

As Rome, i was given the option to grant citizenship to Lucania (same religion, same culture group). I accepted, losing 2 stability.

20 years later an event pops up saying that the province is conquered, and that "it is strange that we did not notice that later". So from "citizenship" back to "conquered".
 
I want to report a bug.

As Rome, i was given the option to grant citizenship to Lucania (same religion, same culture group). I accepted, losing 2 stability.

20 years later an event pops up saying that the province is conquered, and that "it is strange that we did not notice that later". So from "citizenship" back to "conquered".
 
DesertSnow said:
I want to report a bug.

As Rome, i was given the option to grant citizenship to Lucania (same religion, same culture group). I accepted, losing 2 stability.

20 years later an event pops up saying that the province is conquered, and that "it is strange that we did not notice that later". So from "citizenship" back to "conquered".

yes. thats a bug. for quick fixing, open citizenship_progress.txt in event-folder and replace in event_id 20405 the trigger
owner = { culture_group = THIS }
with
owner = { primary_culture = THIS }

than this bug happens no longer. sorry, it should be corrected soon in the download-files.
 
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mate0815 said:
yes. thats a bug. for quick fixing, open citizenship_progress.txt in event-folder and replace in event_id 20405 the trigger with

than this bug happens no longer. sorry, it should be corrected soon in the download-files.

Ok, thanks. I will go and change this right away.
 
I have a question on the citizenship system. Wouldn't it be more rational/accurate if:

a. Full citizens: give out the most research and manpower. Taxes are low (there are slaves here, but they don't work for you, but for the nobles/senate)

b. Imperial: give out the most wealth, but no research or manpower. Historically, most of roman wealth came out from pillaging conquered areas, and later assigning governors who paid a "rent" to the state in exchange for the right to exploit a province (for a set number of years).

c. Allied provinces: Some manpower and research, low tribute.
 
DesertSnow said:
I have a question on the citizenship system. Wouldn't it be more rational/accurate if:

a. Full citizens: give out the most research and manpower. Taxes are low (there are slaves here, but they don't work for you, but for the nobles/senate)

b. Imperial: give out the most wealth, but no research or manpower. Historically, most of roman wealth came out from pillaging conquered areas, and later assigning governors who paid a "rent" to the state in exchange for the right to exploit a province (for a set number of years).

c. Allied provinces: Some manpower and research, low tribute.

Quite possibly. I've been thinking about something along these lines. However, any developments like this would need to rebalance the population of various provinces. E.g. if you compare the population balance in Rome and Carthage, you will see a huge number of freedmen in Rome, which is presumably a decision Pdox have made to give Rome a manpower advantage and tax disadvantage.

Capital provinces also have a big advantage in the number of citizens.
 
TheLand said:
Quite possibly. I've been thinking about something along these lines. However, any developments like this would need to rebalance the population of various provinces. E.g. if you compare the population balance in Rome and Carthage, you will see a huge number of freedmen in Rome, which is presumably a decision Pdox have made to give Rome a manpower advantage and tax disadvantage.

Capital provinces also have a big advantage in the number of citizens.

Makes sense only for a largish empire.

Think back to when Rome was a single city ; they had to get their gold from somewhere back then, didn't they? It makes no sense to have little taxes from full citizens then.

Instead, you should rather try to simulate how when an empire becomes bigger, citizens become more confident in their strength and, paradoxally, believe that it is no longer as necessary to enroll in the army, or provide taxes to the state, in which case the state is forced to squeeze the only areas it rules more or less directly.
 
Featauril said:
Instead, you should rather try to simulate how when an empire becomes bigger, citizens become more confident in their strength and, paradoxally, believe that it is no longer as necessary to enroll in the army, or provide taxes to the state, in which case the state is forced to squeeze the only areas it rules more or less directly.

Funnily enough, I have just been modding that :)

I was in two minds about whether to add a tax penalty. I tihnk I probably will, now, just to see how it goes.
 
More on the citizenship system:

I changed the "imperial province" modifier so that the owner gets
100% more tax income
0% manpower
+5 revolt risk

I changed the "allied province" modifier so that the owner gets
60% manpower
50% taxes

I left the "citizenship province" modifier unchanged.

Then I played a game as Rome. I began at 474, with modified history settings so that there is no war at the beginning (an older change. I did it so that magna Grecia, Epirous and Egypt get some time to prepare for war with more powerful empires)

Results in first 50 years:

As Rome, i have a lot of manpower but not much income. I get some trade income by making deals with certain greek states, but sooner or later i will have to conquer new territory (so that i get "imperial provinces", which will give me money). Otherwise, i won't be able to keep up with the other empires. Unlike my previous games, i have not yet managed to create a 30+ fleet.

Up to this point, i have not seen any major border changes. But my game as Rome is certainly MORE challenging.
 
DesertSnow said:
More on the citizenship system:

I changed the "imperial province" modifier so that the owner gets
100% more tax income
0% manpower
+5 revolt risk

I changed the "allied province" modifier so that the owner gets
60% manpower
50% taxes

I left the "citizenship province" modifier unchanged.

Then I played a game as Rome. I began at 474, with modified history settings so that there is no war at the beginning (an older change. I did it so that magna Grecia, Epirous and Egypt get some time to prepare for war with more powerful empires)

Results in first 50 years:

As Rome, i have a lot of manpower but not much income. I get some trade income by making deals with certain greek states, but sooner or later i will have to conquer new territory (so that i get "imperial provinces", which will give me money). Otherwise, i won't be able to keep up with the other empires. Unlike my previous games, i have not yet managed to create a 30+ fleet.

Up to this point, i have not seen any major border changes. But my game as Rome is certainly MORE challenging.

That's interesting. I was pondering making this kind of change, so thanks for your feedback :)