Star Ruler tech repeatables are better.

[HyperKnight]

In Stellaris, after unlocking everything we get those huge-price-minuscle-benefit techs just to occupy researchers.

In Star Ruler, repeatables giving tiny bonuses per level for adequate cost are available from game start and unlocks are available at certain tiers.
Moreover, you can specialize in type of tech you deem worthy from the game start as well, by choosing repeatable fields.

 

[Ryika]

Repeatables giving you small number bonuses are pretty boring in my opinion. The less we run into them, the better from my perspective, and I certainly would not want to encounter them "from game start". I much prefer techs that actually unlock new stuff that changes how things work in my empire.

 

[HyperKnight]

Repeatables giving you small number bonuses are pretty boring in my opinion.

Not to mention that many Stellaris repeatables are straight useless.

The less we run into them, the better from my perspective

Unfortunately, the only way to do this in Stellaris is to quit before lategame.

 

[Thiend]

Not to mention that many Stellaris repeatables are straight useless.

Unfortunately, the only way to do this in Stellaris is to quit before lategame.

Repeatables in Stellaris are not only strong, they're TOO strong, not least because weapon repeatables multiply together to scale too fast.

It is correct that currently we see too much of them, but its kind of a problem without a clear solution.

The problem: seeing repeatables instead of more interesting techs is boring

However, how do we stop that? Do we:
1. Have the game end before repeatables, which also means reliably missing other lategame techs or else we would in fact still get repeatables
2. Extend the tech tree of interesting things, which just puts it off for a bit and then 1 ensues
3. Remove repeatables and then research in that tree just ends at that point, in which case hitting the end of the tech tree means you remove all of your now-pointless science jobs

There's not a great option available, although I tend to agree that seeing repeatables isn't good, you have to get some of them or the tech tree has to just end.

 

[HyperKnight]

There's not a great option available, although I tend to agree that seeing repeatables isn't good, you have to get some of them or the tech tree has to just end.

And taking the Star Ruler approach with some new stuff unlocks being far, far away on a literally infinite tech tree is imo better.

 

[HyperKnight]

TheTacoWombat from Reddit: "Star Ruler series tech trees are infinitely repeatable. The bonuses themselves aren't too nuts (1 percent maximum hull size or whatever), but because every tech can scale and get better as long as you sink research into them . Eventually you can design things like capital ships that are larger than solar systems, or lasers that do so much damage they can collapse black holes (or explode the black hole in the middle of the Galaxy which has some .. consequences)"

I think it adds a better meaning to "tech dominance".

 

[Thiend]

TheTacoWombat from Reddit: "Star Ruler series tech trees are infinitely repeatable. The bonuses themselves aren't too nuts (1 percent maximum hull size or whatever), but because every tech can scale and get better as long as you sink research into them . Eventually you can design things like capital ships that are larger than solar systems, or lasers that do so much damage they can collapse black holes (or explode the black hole in the middle of the Galaxy which has some .. consequences)"

I think it adds a better meaning to "tech dominance".

I just don't see the benefit here. It sounds like this game does with repeatables what Stellaris largely does with ascension perks, except has the repeatables earlier. Stellaris has a clearer distinction, but is otherwise pretty much the same as far as I see.

 

[HyperKnight]

From the balancing point of view, Stellaris does a sharp spike of tech costs for repeatables, drastically reducing cost effectiveness of research.
And you can't set it on auto because of interspersed useless techs.
In Star Ruler, however, research is equally useful all game long.

 

[Ryika]

From the balancing point of view, Stellaris does a sharp spike of tech costs for repeatables, drastically reducing cost effectiveness of research.
And you can't set it on auto because of interspersed useless techs.
In Star Ruler, however, research is equally useful all game long.

Tier 5 Techs cost 32000, 40000, 48000 research at baseline.
Repeatables start at 50000, and increase by 5000 each time you research them.

I don't really see a sharp spike there.

 

[Zergor]

The only thing I could see added to the very late game would be a very small chance to get fallen empire/cosmogenesis tech between repeatables. They could have repeatables as prerequisites and have a very very low chance to spawn multiplied by the number of repeatables in their category already done. This could add a nice lottery to the super late game.
Aside from that I think repeatables are fine (my only wish would be a hull health repeatable for more options to tank crisis than shield and 100% hardening and to give a use to poor crystal forged plating.)

 

[Beauty Nova]

Repeatables in Stellaris are not only strong, they're TOO strong, not least because weapon repeatables multiply together to scale too fast.

It is correct that currently we see too much of them, but its kind of a problem without a clear solution.

The problem: seeing repeatables instead of more interesting techs is boring

However, how do we stop that? Do we:
1. Have the game end before repeatables, which also means reliably missing other lategame techs or else we would in fact still get repeatables
2. Extend the tech tree of interesting things, which just puts it off for a bit and then 1 ensues
3. Remove repeatables and then research in that tree just ends at that point, in which case hitting the end of the tech tree means you remove all of your now-pointless science jobs

There's not a great option available, although I tend to agree that seeing repeatables isn't good, you have to get some of them or the tech tree has to just end.

There is an option 4, which unity already got: Give science something else to do. From ambition edicts to just straight up edict upkeep and now planet ascension you always have something to be doing with unity. Maybe excess research could be an upkeep cost for special edicts, or instead of hard caps megastructures require large amounts of research to build and upkeep, or planet ascension could cost both unity and research.

It's a bit late now to do all this but I feel like this could have been an option once upon a time.

 

[Thiend]

There is an option 4, which unity already got: Give science something else to do. From ambition edicts to just straight up edict upkeep and now planet ascension you always have something to be doing with unity. Maybe excess research could be an upkeep cost for special edicts, or instead of hard caps megastructures require large amounts of research to build and upkeep, or planet ascension could cost both unity and research.

It's a bit late now to do all this but I feel like this could have been an option once upon a time.

Horribly expensive repeatables for megastructure capacity seems like a more interesting version of repeatables. A few more like that and we could just have interesting repeatables, problem solved.

 

[Beauty Nova]

Horribly expensive repeatables for megastructure capacity seems like a more interesting version of repeatables. A few more like that and we could just have interesting repeatables, problem solved.

Off the top of my sleep deprived head:

Minor Artifact storage capacity
Astral action max uses
Grand Archive specimen storage capacity
Fauna ship growth speed
Gateway construction speed
Megastructure concurrent build limit
Colossus/Juggernaut capacity
Diplomatic weight
Vassal capacity

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Repeatables in Stellaris are not only strong, they're TOO strong, not least because weapon repeatables multiply together to scale too fast.

It is correct that currently we see too much of them, but its kind of a problem without a clear solution.

The problem: seeing repeatables instead of more interesting techs is boring

However, how do we stop that? Do we:
1. Have the game end before repeatables, which also means reliably missing other lategame techs or else we would in fact still get repeatables
2. Extend the tech tree of interesting things, which just puts it off for a bit and then 1 ensues
3. Remove repeatables and then research in that tree just ends at that point, in which case hitting the end of the tech tree means you remove all of your now-pointless science jobs

There's not a great option available, although I tend to agree that seeing repeatables isn't good, you have to get some of them or the tech tree has to just end.

I agree with this in general, except that I think there's an option 4:

4. Have the game end before repeatables, but add a way to beeline some of the lategame techs so that you get play with them before the game ends.

If you want to have Colossi: have at it, but you won't normally also get maximum terraforming, or megastructures. If you want ringworld spam, you won't get titans or jump drives, etc. And if you want everything, you have to go hard into research (which will then limit the extent to which you can actually leverage your titans+colossi+megastructures+whatever).

If a bunch of big techs got moved to a new T6 which was 10x as expensive as T5, you could force a choice (with repeatables serving as the boring default, instead of the boring option after you've already run out).

 

[grommile]

4. Have the game end before repeatables

Given the huge divergence in player performance, this is a dead letter.

 

[Red Death]

In Stellaris, after unlocking everything we get those huge-price-minuscle-benefit techs just to occupy researchers.

In Star Ruler, repeatables giving tiny bonuses per level for adequate cost are available from game start and unlocks are available at certain tiers.
Moreover, you can specialize in type of tech you deem worthy from the game start as well, by choosing repeatable fields.

I agree that Stellaris repeatables are not very interesting. I guess I just really don't understand how inserting them into the tech tree from the start does anything to improve that.

 

[HyperKnight]

I agree that Stellaris repeatables are not very interesting. I guess I just really don't understand how inserting them into the tech tree from the start does anything to improve that.

Blame that on my poor communication skills. You can play Star Ruler (if you haven't yet) to see for yourself? It costs almost nothing and haves a free demo on Steam.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I dream of a game that approaches technology in a radically different manner; where technological progression isn't an inevitability, but instead requires constant upkeep that demands ever larger & more extensive infrastructure to support.

"Bombed back to the stone-age" would actually mean something in such a game, with end-game conflicts being so devastatingly destructive as to essentially reset technological progress.

It would fit perfectly with so many aspects of Stellaris' lore too.

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Blame that on my poor communication skills. You can play Star Ruler (if you haven't yet) to see for yourself? It costs almost nothing and haves a free demo on Steam.

I do not see a demo though. Would have been appreciated seeing the negative reviews about UI.

I dream of a game that approaches technology in a radically different manner; where technological progression isn't an inevitability, but instead requires constant upkeep that demands ever larger & more extensive infrastructure to support.

"Bombed back to the stone-age" would actually mean something in such a game, with end-game conflicts being so devastatingly destructive as to essentially reset technological progress.

It would fit perfectly with so many aspects of Stellaris' lore too.

Empire has it to an extent. Technology decays and takes ever increasing effort to raise higher. And technology costs resources (gold and oil) which are limited in quantity in the game world. Furthermore oil extraction efficiency scales to technology. And nukes can turn sectors into permanently useless wasteland.

But I highly doubt a game one can play in a Linux Shell and requires setting up a server is going to have wide audience appeal these days.

 

[exi123]

I always wanted repeatables to be something like it was in Civ5 in cities: Just give an option what you want to buff with your scientists and let it run until cancelled. Like it now, based on science generated and empire size, the buffs are spread across your empire.

Society options:
- buff to happiness
- buff to pop growth
- buff to unity
[...]

Physics options:
- buff to energy generation
- buff to shield hp
- buff dark matter production
- buff to laster/energy weapons
[...]

Engineering options:
- buff to kinetic weapons
- buff to megastructure build times
- buff to hull points
[...]

Something like this would eliminate the stacking powercreep of repeatables in the lategame entirely and would flatten the powerlevel. It would also make sense to keep research high in taller empires after ending the tech trees to have better ships in general as wider empires with more tech spread.