What would you recommend as a build for the new Starlight Citadel origin? (no spoilers please) thanks
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Fanatic Egalitarian + Militarist
Civics: Sovereign Guardianship + Parliamentary Systems(or Distinguished Admiralty, your call) + Beacon of Liberty
Traditions: Unyielding(duh) + Expansion(reduce SG malus) + Harmony + w/e you want
Ascension Perks: Eternal Vigilance(turn Defense Platform Policy off or to middle option. Building everywhere utilizes Outposts and upgrading them is a chore) + Archaeo Engineering + Galactic Force Projection + Imperial Prerogative + Interstellar Dominion + w/e you want
Precursor: Zroni(Stormcaster now nullifies Armor... seriously OP with a Turtle mindset). Other Precursors are fine but Zroni is the best.
Ascension Path: W/e you want but I recommend Genetic(Cloning) or Cybernetic. If Genetic, I recommend Purity -> Purity -> Cloning for a Leader focused build. Mutation -> Purity -> Cloning also works
With respect to Civics, you choose to either have stronger Fleets/Admirals with Distinguished Admiralty or get Factions formed and stack the Unity from Factions with Parliamentary Systems. This permits you to get through Traditions faster and notably Unyielding to boost the effects of your Citadel. Taking Eternal Vigilance early(which is possible thanks to Unyielding) stacks more buffs to your Citadel to where you're able to fend off early aggression. The Policy on Eternal Vigilance will build Defense Platforms for free based on the Policy up to 50% Capacity. More Capacity you have, the more Platforms it will build for you. Updating them as new Technology becomes available is on you though, hence restrict it to updated Starbases/Orbital Rings or don't have it active until you're ready. Do note the top Policy will build on Outposts so be sure to upgrade their Defense Platforms if you do.
Which Ascension path you take is up to you but if you go Cybernetic, then you'll have -100% Empire Size from Pops **AND** -100% Empire Size from Districts with an Urbanist Governor. Genetic(Cloning) has insane Pop Growth and is easier to hit -100% Empire Size from Pops but cannot hit -100% Empire Size from Districts everywhere without also getting Lost Building Methods Tech via Pre-FTL observation(and the odds are unlikely). Still... you'll have -100% on Sector Capital and -97.5% everywhere else. Ascending Colonies will only impact Empire Size from Colonies and Harmony Tradition + Holy Covenant will result in a 1.25 x .275 = .34375 or 65.625% reduction overall(Ascensionist yields .1875 or 81.25%). If you opt to do Spiritualist Ethic, then I recommend taking Ascensionist as 3rd Civic but going Genetic(Cloning) since Spiritualists do not like Cybernetic/Synthetic Ascension paths. If you do go Ascensionist, I’d swap Parliamentary for Beacon to hit -100% Pops. Otherwise you’ll need either Domination or Balance in the Middle to reach the threshold.
Rest I leave up to you.
Civics: Sovereign Guardianship + Parliamentary Systems(or Distinguished Admiralty, your call) + Beacon of Liberty
Traditions: Unyielding(duh) + Expansion(reduce SG malus) + Harmony + w/e you want
Ascension Perks: Eternal Vigilance(turn Defense Platform Policy off or to middle option. Building everywhere utilizes Outposts and upgrading them is a chore) + Archaeo Engineering + Galactic Force Projection + Imperial Prerogative + Interstellar Dominion + w/e you want
Precursor: Zroni(Stormcaster now nullifies Armor... seriously OP with a Turtle mindset). Other Precursors are fine but Zroni is the best.
Ascension Path: W/e you want but I recommend Genetic(Cloning) or Cybernetic. If Genetic, I recommend Purity -> Purity -> Cloning for a Leader focused build. Mutation -> Purity -> Cloning also works
With respect to Civics, you choose to either have stronger Fleets/Admirals with Distinguished Admiralty or get Factions formed and stack the Unity from Factions with Parliamentary Systems. This permits you to get through Traditions faster and notably Unyielding to boost the effects of your Citadel. Taking Eternal Vigilance early(which is possible thanks to Unyielding) stacks more buffs to your Citadel to where you're able to fend off early aggression. The Policy on Eternal Vigilance will build Defense Platforms for free based on the Policy up to 50% Capacity. More Capacity you have, the more Platforms it will build for you. Updating them as new Technology becomes available is on you though, hence restrict it to updated Starbases/Orbital Rings or don't have it active until you're ready. Do note the top Policy will build on Outposts so be sure to upgrade their Defense Platforms if you do.
Which Ascension path you take is up to you but if you go Cybernetic, then you'll have -100% Empire Size from Pops **AND** -100% Empire Size from Districts with an Urbanist Governor. Genetic(Cloning) has insane Pop Growth and is easier to hit -100% Empire Size from Pops but cannot hit -100% Empire Size from Districts everywhere without also getting Lost Building Methods Tech via Pre-FTL observation(and the odds are unlikely). Still... you'll have -100% on Sector Capital and -97.5% everywhere else. Ascending Colonies will only impact Empire Size from Colonies and Harmony Tradition + Holy Covenant will result in a 1.25 x .275 = .34375 or 65.625% reduction overall(Ascensionist yields .1875 or 81.25%). If you opt to do Spiritualist Ethic, then I recommend taking Ascensionist as 3rd Civic but going Genetic(Cloning) since Spiritualists do not like Cybernetic/Synthetic Ascension paths. If you do go Ascensionist, I’d swap Parliamentary for Beacon to hit -100% Pops. Otherwise you’ll need either Domination or Balance in the Middle to reach the threshold.
Rest I leave up to you.
Last edited:
- 3
- 1
- 1
You are free to disband them one by one and let it rebuild an updated version if you're short on alloys...
- 2
I have a lot of fun locking myself in the L-cluster and waiting the crisis.
The real advantage of of the origin is not the 4th citadel, it's the building, that grants infinite tracking and a lot of range with each planet in the system, which is really good in system with a single entrance (you can put everything on the opposite side).
Here's an exemple with 3 planets + 1 habitat.
Since it's a specialist job, I minmaxed it with rogue servitors, I want to see if I can use nanites autocanons if I stack enough bio trophies.
The real advantage of of the origin is not the 4th citadel, it's the building, that grants infinite tracking and a lot of range with each planet in the system, which is really good in system with a single entrance (you can put everything on the opposite side).
Here's an exemple with 3 planets + 1 habitat.
Since it's a specialist job, I minmaxed it with rogue servitors, I want to see if I can use nanites autocanons if I stack enough bio trophies.
- 3
- 1
- 1
- 1
See, I've had L gates turned off for so long, I forgot about this as a big use case ^^
- 1
I went with this build
I went normal empire due to councilor position for guardianship. Educators and cybernetic cybervision combo very well, increasing efficiency of citadel uplink.
mutagenic spas completely kill your happiness, but educator-cybervision skywatchers give like 50 stability alone, so with other modifiers there is 100% stability because educators throw a lot of chalk and even tho all pops generate insane crime, there is none because educators slaps fingers with rulers while you enjoy insane pop growth due to educators boosting mutagenic spa attendants as well
educators also make defense armies, so with unyelding you get tons of unity and your planets will literaly break before imperial guard wins the battle with 97% casualty rate. Not that educators boost themselves and all soldier jobs equaly. I went with lithoid resilient-very strong species and put intergrated weaponry on them as well since it boosts efficiency of educators by 20% (you learn faster when teacher points their gun at you right?) Playing with brittle is a tad hard from beginning, but with you having 0 happiness due to spas late game anyway it's perfect negative trait.
tho dunno what army damage from sprawl penalty comes from, I don't like it at all.
You definetly want to take unyielding, put full spending on it and make these defense platforms:
25% tracking on nanobots missiles is a lie, skywatchers give like +90 tracking (if you get 3 FE justice complexes on planet) so they are 100% homing and they don't cost artifacts because full spending eternal vigilance builds them for free.
Since educator councilor position is bugged and only allows scientists, your council should look something like this:
You wanto 2x miltiary overseers for destiny traits (for +1000 starting ship experience which WORKS on citadels), rest don't matter much.
With statocracy and (if you are lucky like I was) prototype VIR core relic (+4 councilor skill level) you get 15 councilor skills, that means -75% upkeep of starbases from warden of citadel and first citadel boosts your defense like nothing else in game with like 150% defense platform damage or 75% starbase hull/armour.
For systems that have at least 2 colonies you can safely run L-slot size autocannons, as they will reach anywhere in system if citadel in in middle, due to skywatchers insane range buff, for outpost systems/ 1 colony system you most likely are better off with ancient macrobatteries as for autocannons you need like 300% range increase for them to reach anywhere in system from center of system if you build citadels close to main starbase.
you can put target uplink into citadels (cool mainly when built in system without skywatchers) to get their range to like 125%), in systems with colonies I prefer 4x deep space black sites, for 20 stability to any colony and habitat in system. In systems with skywatcher, uplink is not necessary you can build ancient shield overcharger instead.
Fully buffed citadel looks like this:
Please note of nanobot repair system and targeting override, it's to make citadels to last as long as possible (along with asteroidal carapace to boost armour even further along with councilor position) so it regens mid-fight while defense platforms shoot clouds of missiles without any worry. If used along with starbase I reccomend simple setup with ion cannons because it's fun when they fire with like 300% increased fire rate.
Orbital rings are buffed by skywatcher as well so you want ion cannons on them as well, with planetary defense batteries for some spicy neutron missiles to throw into fray, unless you play tall and want more districts, on my save I conquered entire galaxy so my sprawl is huge
Now with enigmatic engineering giving FE buildings, I recommend taking Quantum Drilling hubs and Justice complexes at the very least (no need for anything else).
A fully geared planets worked the best for me like this:
Ziggurats of justice are there because due to civil education you are limited to 3 copies of enforecer building per planet, with FE building increasing it even more, so you can have up to 3600 educators on ecumenopolis, further boosted by their efficiency. Specializations are: defense, commercial, commercial.
Meaning they will boost efficiency of all other jobs like threefold:
Sodiers including, which with guardianship they make TONS of unity and defense armies,
as for civilians, not only they generate tons of research for us, but since we got fan militaristic ethic, they generate naval cap, so there is no need for any % naval cap increases and it's really easy to cap it and also help with unity due to free edict fund.
For energy upkeep, you can make ringworlds, which allow energy generation now even for non-gestalts, and for minerals you want to most preferably build habitats in furnance systems or mineral rich systems, with ecuator boosted miners you can easily fuel your entire-ecumenopolis empire with few habitats alone
Quantum drills are not necessary, but they sure help. FE justice complexes is what you want.
For end one eye candy and that's it from me at year 2432. GL
I went normal empire due to councilor position for guardianship. Educators and cybernetic cybervision combo very well, increasing efficiency of citadel uplink.
mutagenic spas completely kill your happiness, but educator-cybervision skywatchers give like 50 stability alone, so with other modifiers there is 100% stability because educators throw a lot of chalk and even tho all pops generate insane crime, there is none because educators slaps fingers with rulers while you enjoy insane pop growth due to educators boosting mutagenic spa attendants as well
educators also make defense armies, so with unyelding you get tons of unity and your planets will literaly break before imperial guard wins the battle with 97% casualty rate. Not that educators boost themselves and all soldier jobs equaly. I went with lithoid resilient-very strong species and put intergrated weaponry on them as well since it boosts efficiency of educators by 20% (you learn faster when teacher points their gun at you right?) Playing with brittle is a tad hard from beginning, but with you having 0 happiness due to spas late game anyway it's perfect negative trait.
tho dunno what army damage from sprawl penalty comes from, I don't like it at all.
You definetly want to take unyielding, put full spending on it and make these defense platforms:
25% tracking on nanobots missiles is a lie, skywatchers give like +90 tracking (if you get 3 FE justice complexes on planet) so they are 100% homing and they don't cost artifacts because full spending eternal vigilance builds them for free.
Since educator councilor position is bugged and only allows scientists, your council should look something like this:
You wanto 2x miltiary overseers for destiny traits (for +1000 starting ship experience which WORKS on citadels), rest don't matter much.
With statocracy and (if you are lucky like I was) prototype VIR core relic (+4 councilor skill level) you get 15 councilor skills, that means -75% upkeep of starbases from warden of citadel and first citadel boosts your defense like nothing else in game with like 150% defense platform damage or 75% starbase hull/armour.
For systems that have at least 2 colonies you can safely run L-slot size autocannons, as they will reach anywhere in system if citadel in in middle, due to skywatchers insane range buff, for outpost systems/ 1 colony system you most likely are better off with ancient macrobatteries as for autocannons you need like 300% range increase for them to reach anywhere in system from center of system if you build citadels close to main starbase.
you can put target uplink into citadels (cool mainly when built in system without skywatchers) to get their range to like 125%), in systems with colonies I prefer 4x deep space black sites, for 20 stability to any colony and habitat in system. In systems with skywatcher, uplink is not necessary you can build ancient shield overcharger instead.
Fully buffed citadel looks like this:
Please note of nanobot repair system and targeting override, it's to make citadels to last as long as possible (along with asteroidal carapace to boost armour even further along with councilor position) so it regens mid-fight while defense platforms shoot clouds of missiles without any worry. If used along with starbase I reccomend simple setup with ion cannons because it's fun when they fire with like 300% increased fire rate.
Orbital rings are buffed by skywatcher as well so you want ion cannons on them as well, with planetary defense batteries for some spicy neutron missiles to throw into fray, unless you play tall and want more districts, on my save I conquered entire galaxy so my sprawl is huge
Now with enigmatic engineering giving FE buildings, I recommend taking Quantum Drilling hubs and Justice complexes at the very least (no need for anything else).
A fully geared planets worked the best for me like this:
Ziggurats of justice are there because due to civil education you are limited to 3 copies of enforecer building per planet, with FE building increasing it even more, so you can have up to 3600 educators on ecumenopolis, further boosted by their efficiency. Specializations are: defense, commercial, commercial.
Meaning they will boost efficiency of all other jobs like threefold:
Sodiers including, which with guardianship they make TONS of unity and defense armies,
as for civilians, not only they generate tons of research for us, but since we got fan militaristic ethic, they generate naval cap, so there is no need for any % naval cap increases and it's really easy to cap it and also help with unity due to free edict fund.
For energy upkeep, you can make ringworlds, which allow energy generation now even for non-gestalts, and for minerals you want to most preferably build habitats in furnance systems or mineral rich systems, with ecuator boosted miners you can easily fuel your entire-ecumenopolis empire with few habitats alone
Quantum drills are not necessary, but they sure help. FE justice complexes is what you want.
For end one eye candy and that's it from me at year 2432. GL
Last edited:
- 4
- 3
Army Damage malus comes from Sovereign Guardianship. You go over 100 Empire Size = malus starts being applied. It's supposed to be a TALL Civic so limiting Empire Sprawl should be paramount if you take it. Getting to -100% Pops and Districts is well within reach with it. Cybernetic Ascension + Democratic Concurrency + Beacon of Liberty + Psionic Theory + Harmony = -100% Pops with SG. Construction Templates + Cybernetic Ruler + Urbanist Destiny Trait on Governor = -100% Empire Size from Districts with SG. Systems will be +75%(so limit Systems) and Colonies will be +25% but that 12.5 Sprawl can be reduced by a lot with Ascensionist + Harmony + Holy Covenant(12.5 -> 1.875 fully ascended or 81.25% reduction). So if you limit the size of your Empire with respect to Systems and ascend every Colony you have, you can have virtually no Empire Size.
- 1
i don't have the DLC yet, but i'm excited to try the following things all combined:
1. sovereign guardianship with the reloading bay module for more hangarbay defensive platforms
2. unyielding tradition tree for more hangarbay defensive platforms
3. eternal vigilance for more hangarbay defensive platforms and full spending policy (expensive but worth it once i have the economy)
4. become a bulwark vassel for someone too, they pay me to build up my starbases with more hangarbay defensive platforms
5. get every single defensive starbase and platform trait on my council leaders, multiple leaders preferably
6. use the archeotech buildings that give me more hangarbay defensive platforms instead of the hangarbay buildings
7. of course defensive supercomputer for more hangarbay defensive platforms
Edit: 8. how could I forget? build a Strategic Coordination Center megastructure for more hangarbay defense platforms
1. sovereign guardianship with the reloading bay module for more hangarbay defensive platforms
2. unyielding tradition tree for more hangarbay defensive platforms
3. eternal vigilance for more hangarbay defensive platforms and full spending policy (expensive but worth it once i have the economy)
4. become a bulwark vassel for someone too, they pay me to build up my starbases with more hangarbay defensive platforms
5. get every single defensive starbase and platform trait on my council leaders, multiple leaders preferably
6. use the archeotech buildings that give me more hangarbay defensive platforms instead of the hangarbay buildings
7. of course defensive supercomputer for more hangarbay defensive platforms
Edit: 8. how could I forget? build a Strategic Coordination Center megastructure for more hangarbay defense platforms
Last edited:
- 2
- 1
- 1
- 1
Personally, I'm inclined to go for building the starbases directly on top of single hyperlane entrances with absolutely nothing but torpedoes. Things will pop in range to be instantly deleted by overwhelming firepower.
- 1
Can I ask you, is your name after a NPC in Elwynn Forest? Sorry for being OT, sometimes we gotta know these things.
two modules, one torpedo, one hangarbay? i just love strike craft so much, for the roleplay. so happy they finally made carriers viable.
At a range where torpedoes work, you might as well use all torpedoes.
You could use hangers on the BACK end of the system away from the chokepoint, to maximize the travel time to actually fight back.
- 1
yes but the hangarbays are there to be cool, not for optimal meta purposes, and having two different defense platform designs doesn't play well with the automatic defense platform building policy from eternal vigilance. having only one is better.
Ah, in that case, yeah that works. The hangers WILL work at that range and they do work decently well together.
- 1
8. how could I forget? build a Strategic Coordination Center megastructure for more hangarbay defense platforms
What would you suggest for traits? Docile? Engineering expertise? Thanks
I'd recommend Unruly over Docile. You can easily hit -100% Pops with SG Civic, hence completely negate Unruly's effect since the Pop Scope won't matter since the Empire Scope will be at -100% and 0 x anything = 0. With SG though, you don't need Cloning to hit -100% Pops. If you go Genetic, Heightened Abilities + Psionic + Harmony + Domination/Balance in the Middle(GC resolution) + Beacon of Liberty = -105% or over the 100% threshold. If you opt for Cybernetic, then Democratic Concurrency yields 15%, Beacon yields 15% and hence Psionic + Harmony puts you at -100%.
So, because Cloning isn't needed, what traits you start with are honestly up to you. You can't remove what you start with if you go Cybernetic but with Purity or Mutation, you can mold your species as you see fit. If I was being aggressive early on with Distinguished Admiralty, I'd take advantage of the new Phenotype Traits such as Spatial Mastery(+1 Effective skill level on all leader types) or the cheaper Flight(+1 Commander Skill level) since both Traits come with a combat buff to your Armies since they take reduced damage. That means they'll last longer in a fight so if you combine that with say Strong(+20% Damage), you could gain a notable edge in land combat. The effective skill level perk yields more firing rate but also better Council agenda speed and Councilor perks. Spatial Mastery, while costly, means better Survey Speed, Dig Site skill, Astral Rift skill, etc. It adds up and makes that 4 points well worth it.
Alternatively, if you have Parliamentary Systems and you wanted to Unity/Tech rush, Traditional + Intelligent + Natural Engineers + Unruly would be a solid starting setup. Incubators was stupidly broken but they've since fixed it.
Oh and one more thing: Nucleotide Traits(aka Orbital Speed Demon) are well worth adding if you take Nucleotide Isolation. Of the three, I'd probably put Blue(Limited Regeneration) at 1-A and especially if you're aggressive. Red(Social Pheromones) is a solid 1-B since it has everything you're looking for. When combined with Mutagenic Habitability + Adaptability Tradition + Erudite Industrialist Governor = -50% Housing Usage(-60% with Balance in the Middle resolution) and -45% Amenities usage(-50% on Govenor's planet. Add 10% from fully upgraded Medical Center for -55%/-60% respectively). Green or Bioadaptibility is alas last because it used to yield +5% Habitability but now yields +30% Minimum Habitability(which really won't help you much). All three yield +5% Pop Growth so are well worth getting. If you run across them via OSD event, you can add all three for free so they're well worth it if you want to roll the dice since they count towards the Purity score(hence +3 for nothing if you're successful).
Last edited:
- 1
Eh, I am just playing Egalitarian/Xenophobe/Pacifist Inward Perfection + Planetscapers. It doesn’t maximize power of Deepspace Citadels but actually uses them.