Stellaris - Stellaris - Extreme Energy and Alloy Upkeep For Ships that Do Not Exist [v4.0.5 – 408d]

[Drajac]

Description
Stellaris - Extreme Energy and Alloy Upkeep For Ships that Do Not Exist [v4.0.5 – 408d]

Game Version
v4.0.5 – 408d

What version do you use?
Steam

What expansions do you have installed?
Plantoids, Humanoids, Synthetic Dawn, Utopia, Leviathans Story Pack, Apocalypse, Megacorp, Distant Stars, Ancient Relics, Lithoids, Federations, Necroids, Nemesis, Aquatics, Overlord, Toxoids, First Contact, Galactic Paragons, Astral Planes, Season 8 Expansion Pass, The Machine Age, Cosmic Storms, Grand Archive

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
Description: During the early game ~2250-2258, my energy and alloy upkeep for ships spiked to around 300 energy and 60 alloys for “Ships”. At the time, I had a fleet of 20 basic corvettes with a listed upkeep of 0.8 energy and 0.2 alloy each.

Deleting all 20 ships reduced the upkeep by 16 energy and 4 alloys, as expected. I then had NO ships, and still was rocking a -300 energy and -60 alloy upkeep.

Steps to reproduce the issue.
Steps to Reproduce: I don’t know. I’m playing an Ironman save, so I can’t revert to an earlier save to try to figure out what caused it.

1) Start the Game
2) Load the Attached Save File
3) Mouse Over the “ENERGY” income
4) Marvel at how the system is charging me 300 credits and 60 alloys for ships that don’t exist.

Upload Attachment
File(s) attached

 

[Rottnikken]

Hey, I think this is due to the Eternal Vigilance + Full Spending Policy you have set. It happened to me as well, the autobuilt Defence Platforms around EVERY system made each 6 months quickly adds a lot of upkeep which seems to be counted as "ships" in the mouseover. The image is from your save on some randomly selected system with no upgraded starbase, you see many of them, each with some upkeep. Even with the 50% reduction it adds up super fast, so I put it to half-spending and it only adds it on the starbases labelled as Bastions (from what I can tell)

 

[KrusteDE]

so it istn just me then. i also had the same issue. i got like 12 plattforms, 2 for each station an removed them but went from +26 alloy to -46 its stupid. i also removed every ship and plattform then still got -50 for ships that didnt exist. even after a second run i tried it again and its happening again and i cant play like this

 

[Drajac]

so it istn just me then. i also had the same issue. i got like 12 plattforms, 2 for each station an removed them but went from +26 alloy to -46 its stupid. i also removed every ship and plattform then still got -50 for ships that didnt exist. even after a second run i tried it again and its happening again and i cant play like this

The problem lies with the "Eternal Vigilance" Ascension perk, which is set automatically to the policy of "Full Funding", creating Defense Platforms around ALL starbases, even un-upgraded Outposts. These platforms are counted as Ships instead of Platforms.

Solution:
1. Open Empire Policies.
2. Set Eternal Vigilance Funding to "Half-Funded". This will only apply the perk to upgraded starbases.
3. Manually go through your outpost systems and disband the extra Defense Platforms.

Thanks go to user @Rottnikken for finding the problem.

 

[Jellefly12]

The problem lies with the "Eternal Vigilance" Ascension perk, which is set automatically to the policy of "Full Funding", creating Defense Platforms around ALL starbases, even un-upgraded Outposts. These platforms are counted as Ships instead of Platforms.

Solution:
1. Open Empire Policies.
2. Set Eternal Vigilance Funding to "Half-Funded". This will only apply the perk to upgraded starbases.
3. Manually go through your outpost systems and disband the extra Defense Platforms.

Thanks go to user @Rottnikken for finding the problem.

no its not just the Eternal Vigilance Funding. i calculated every single ship and defence platform and should have 260 upkeep in my current game. however the game is telling me i have over 600 upkeep for ships. i deleted every single ship, station, starbase and i still have an upkeep of 360. With NOT A SINGLE SHIP. if you will i can provide the save, screenshots to prove it. (my outliner only has sectors to show - nothing else, its deleted)

 

[X-Proxy]

no its not just the Eternal Vigilance Funding. i calculated every single ship and defence platform and should have 260 upkeep in my current game. however the game is telling me i have over 600 upkeep for ships. i deleted every single ship, station, starbase and i still have an upkeep of 360. With NOT A SINGLE SHIP. if you will i can provide the save, screenshots to prove it. (my outliner only has sectors to show - nothing else, its deleted)

Yes, your save-file would be very helpful!

 

[Jellefly12]

Yes, your save-file would be very helpful!

Ok, so here ive got a screenshot of the game i was playing:

attached is also the save file. i have all the DLCs except the last one. im not sure if theres ways to get more info on the state of the game, or output something to a log with more detail as to what the ship upkeep is supposed to be. but as you can see: no ships, starbases or defence platforms, and still 360 ship upkeep that cant possibly exist yet still does.

 

[X-Proxy]

but as you can see: no ships, starbases or defence platforms, and still 360 ship upkeep that cant possibly exist yet still does.

Thank you for your save-file! Let's take your outpost in Mang system as an exapmple: in the "Defenses" tab we see 6 defensive platforms with some energy and alloys upkeep. You have 53 systems = 53 outposts = lots and lots defensive platforms = 360 energy and 69 alloys "Ships"upkeep.

Spoiler: Screenshot

"Eternal Vigilance" policy set to "Full Spending", builds defensive platforms in literally every suitable place. And I think that devs definitely should separate "Ships" and "Defensive platforms" upkeep in the UI to avoid such confusing situations.

 

[Jellefly12]

Thank you for your save-file! Let's take your outpost in Mang system as an exapmple: in the "Defenses" tab we see 6 defensive platforms with some energy and alloys upkeep. You have 53 systems = 53 outposts = lots and lots defensive platforms = 360 energy and 69 alloys "Ships"upkeep.

Spoiler: Screenshot

View attachment 1328351

"Eternal Vigilance" policy set to "Full Spending", builds defensive platforms in literally every suitable place. And I think that devs definitely should separate "Ships" and "Defensive platforms" upkeep in the UI to avoid such confusing situations.

something is verry much verry wrong here.

the station you mentioned i never upgraded to a starbase. i have a bunch of defence platforms in places i never upgraded to a starbase. this can't be intentional? if it is its one of the dumbest changes they could have made. and if it somehow is intentional, the description of the Acension is wrong at worst of verry unclear at best.

a starbase and an outpost are two VERRY different things. you cant tell me it builds defence platforms around a starbase and then proceed to build in outposts. that doesnt make any sense.

And EVEN if those two things arent enough, WHY ARENT THEY SHOWING UP IN THE OUTLINER?? youre telling me im supposed to manage defence platforms on 60 systems by clicking on every system's starbase individually????

Okay, rant over.

Thanks for pointing this out to me i guess.. even tough this should have been clear the AP builds defence platforms around outposts, as well as starbases.

 

[X-Proxy]

something is verry much verry wrong here.

the station you mentioned i never upgraded to a starbase. i have a bunch of defence platforms in places i never upgraded to a starbase. this can't be intentional? if it is its one of the dumbest changes they could have made. and if it somehow is intentional, the description of the Acension is wrong at worst of verry unclear at best.

a starbase and an outpost are two VERRY different things. you cant tell me it builds defence platforms around a starbase and then proceed to build in outposts. that doesnt make any sense.

And EVEN if those two things arent enough, WHY ARENT THEY SHOWING UP IN THE OUTLINER?? youre telling me im supposed to manage defence platforms on 60 systems by clicking on every system's starbase individually????

Okay, rant over.

Thanks for pointing this out to me i guess.. even tough this should have been clear the AP builds defence platforms around outposts, as well as starbases.

I agree on all points, it's a completely misleading system at the moment.

 

[Exasperation]

a starbase and an outpost are two VERRY different things. you cant tell me it builds defence platforms around a starbase and then proceed to build in outposts. that doesnt make any sense.

They're not, though. When you build an outpost, the command you give to the construction ship is "build starbase (outpost)". The message when it finishes construction says "completed construction of a starbase". The button to destroy an outpost is labeled "this will destroy the starbase". The outpost concept in the in-game help starts off by saying "outposts are small starbases". The game is extremely explicit about outposts being a type of starbase, over and over.

 

[Jellefly12]

They're not, though. When you build an outpost, the command you give to the construction ship is "build starbase (outpost)". The message when it finishes construction says "completed construction of a starbase". The button to destroy an outpost is labeled "this will destroy the starbase". The outpost concept in the in-game help starts off by saying "outposts are small starbases". The game is extremely explicit about outposts being a type of starbase, over and over.

Im aware, but still.. these two shouldnt be labelled as the same. From a UX perspective, its bad design to have these two entities labelled as the same. they provide different functions. (one being just there to provide you ownership of the system, the other having multiple utilities).

And even besides that, why the hell do i not see them in my outliner? if they were showing up in the outliner i would be okay with all of this. but i had to discover their true functionality from a forum post.. the game should communicatie this to me (in multiple ways, preferably).

 

[VexacionRT]

something is verry much verry wrong here.

the station you mentioned i never upgraded to a starbase. i have a bunch of defence platforms in places i never upgraded to a starbase. this can't be intentional? if it is its one of the dumbest changes they could have made. and if it somehow is intentional, the description of the Acension is wrong at worst of verry unclear at best.

a starbase and an outpost are two VERRY different things. you cant tell me it builds defence platforms around a starbase and then proceed to build in outposts. that doesnt make any sense.

And EVEN if those two things arent enough, WHY ARENT THEY SHOWING UP IN THE OUTLINER?? youre telling me im supposed to manage defence platforms on 60 systems by clicking on every system's starbase individually????

Okay, rant over.

Thanks for pointing this out to me i guess.. even tough this should have been clear the AP builds defence platforms around outposts, as well as starbases.

Outposts are starbases.

The only reason that people forget is because of the "Starbase Cap" which only includes UPGRADED starbases... This is what confuses people into thinking outposts aren't "starbases"

So there are 2 UI problems.

First: Defense Platforms are bundled under ships instead of having their own line item in the tooltips. Simple to fix, just separate out Defense platforms from starbases.

Second: People think outposts aren't starbases because of the Starbase cap. Not sure how to fix this so people having a hard time grasping this can do so. Simplest solution would be to change Eternal Vigilance to only put platforms on upgraded starbases.

 

[Jellefly12]

Outposts are starbases.

The only reason that people forget is because of the "Starbase Cap" which only includes UPGRADED starbases... This is what confuses people into thinking outposts aren't "starbases"

So there are 2 UI problems.

First: Defense Platforms are bundled under ships instead of having their own line item in the tooltips. Simple to fix, just separate out Defense platforms from starbases.

Second: People think outposts aren't starbases because of the Starbase cap. Not sure how to fix this so people having a hard time grasping this can do so. Simplest solution would be to change Eternal Vigilance to only put platforms on upgraded starbases.

well you can change the 'spending' under policies, and that does excactly that: only build on bastions. it would also be as simple as changing the text of the ascencion perk to say "starbases & bastions" or "outposts & bastions". having all of them be in the outliner would also help... if for so many the fact that only upgraded starbases count as 'real' starbases, then why not adopt that change?