Stirling Generator

[Mike6979]

So, I have to ask, what is the heat source for the Stirling generator? It seems insanely overpowered and kind of a new player crutch.
If it is using mirrors, like NASA ha discussed, it should take more room. Maybe plutonium rods in a sealed case using the waste heat? Of course that has it's own problems.

Has this been discussed? Thanks.

 

[xigunder]

Frankly, having seen the numerous threads about real science vs game science I truly hope it actually isn't discussed. I just want to play the game.

BTW I am a retired disabled Navy vet and can barely get around with crutches and a wheelchair. What has this got to do with the game? I am totally for new players (like me) getting a crutch to help sometimes.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

So, I have to ask, what is the heat source for the Stirling generator? It seems insanely overpowered and kind of a new player crutch.
If it is using mirrors, like NASA ha discussed, it should take more room. Maybe plutonium rods in a sealed case using the waste heat? Of course that has it's own problems.

Has this been discussed? Thanks.

It is referred to as the "Stirling Radioisotope Generator" in-game.

There is a research-able upgrade (breakthrough) for the Stirling Power Generators. It's called "Plutonium Synthesis".

 

[Turin the Mad]

Satellites have been using RTGs for, what, fifty to sixty years as of right now? Not a stretch by any means - that they require maintenance at all is the bigger surprise. (Guess that balances out against the things simply burning out every 20-30 Sols or so.)

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Stirlings are quite powerful, but also VERY expensive. They are only really viable early on for the richer sponsors. If you play for score (where speed is quite important) you'll have to make some tough choices if you rely on them.

 

[Whitecold]

Well, maintenance and having any form of control on their power output. Usually the main selling point of an RTG is that it is a system with no moving parts at all, giving ultimate reliability with only the half-life time of the isotope used limiting the lifetime.

 

[Mike6979]

Thanks Fox, I had not seen that.
Whitecold, it does have moving parts, they are just enclosed.

 

[spannbeton]

Yep Sterling does have moving parts, peltier elements dont.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

For anyone interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

 

[LoneSnark]

These things are super powerful. I think they should require something more, such as going and mining radioactive material, for example.

 

[Thorin]

Stirling generators in this game are an rtg and a stirling engine in generator mode put together.
In theory this could work, but the main problem is that that stirling engine is not a really good engine to do anything.
RTG has a base efficiency of 5%-10% percent, with zero moving part (no maintenance), small size, and easy to pack and carry. Stirling engine has an efficiency of 15%-30%, very bad compared to other engines, while better than a pure rtg, not much and has a very complex moving system, which needs heavy maintenance and very sensitive to dust (like on mars), basically any other engine would be a better to be used as the generator instead, but those are less sci-fi looking and sounding.

 

[Whitecold]

These things are super powerful. I think they should require something more, such as going and mining radioactive material, for example.

I'd more make them import-only, if your sponsor is a nuclear power. Permanently. Once you get the tech to make plutonium, you basically have a nuclear power plant with a bunch of centrifuges running, at which point you can cull the centrifuges and use the nuclear powerplant directly. There is a reason RTGs are really only used on space probes and some arctic monitoring stations.

 

[starkaos]

Would standard generators even be useful on Mars? You need a decent amount of oxygen for them to work or else they are useless. A Stirling Engine might have a better efficiency on Mars compared to Earth due to the temperature variation of Mars' atmosphere and the RTG. So we have to compare engine efficiencies on Mars and not on Earth to determine which is the better generator.

 

[Thorin]

Why would they need oxygen? Both the stirling engine and any other generator turn heat into electricity (stirling generators directly, with internal heat exchanger, normal generators by turning water or other liquid into steam/gas and using that to run the generators), the heat comes from the rtg in both case, the stirling engine has lower efficiency than almost any other engine (direct steam engine would be worse, but we don't use those anymore for a reason too).

 

[Falc]

A more specific Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_radioisotope_generator

 

[starkaos]

Why would they need oxygen? Both the stirling engine and any other generator turn heat into electricity (stirling generators directly, with internal heat exchanger, normal generators by turning water or other liquid into steam/gas and using that to run the generators), the heat comes from the rtg in both case, the stirling engine has lower efficiency than almost any other engine (direct steam engine would be worse, but we don't use those anymore for a reason too).

Because the vast majority of generators require oxygen to work. The amount of energy created by a gas generator is greater than a RTG. RTGs are great for interstellar probes, but not for powering a colony. You might get a few hundred Watts from a RTG compared to 10 times the amount from portable gas generators. Therefore, the RTG will not generate enough heat to be useful to turn liquid into a gas.

 

[Thorin]

The entire concept of using stirling (and other non combustion generators) is to avoid bringing or generating and burning fuel which is needed for the rockets.
Yes, the game gives us easy way to produce fuel out of almost nothing (both water and electricity comes easily), but in reality the only reliable way to produce fuel for the generators is to get it from water (as happens in the game too), but you cannot get more energy from burning the same fuel than what you spent to get it. So unless you have fuel for your oxygen breathing from other way, you have to use other heat source (like an rtg or a full nuclear/fusion rector) or entirely other generating ways (solar/wind)

 

[spannbeton]

Just found out you can build them in domes. this changes everything. so my midgame project is a small dome full of sterlings now.

 

[Thorin]

hmm, never tried building outside stuff in domes, with the less maintenance tech and safety from the elements, it could be worthwhile to build domes just to protect outside buildings.

 

[spannbeton]

hmm, never tried building outside stuff in domes, with the less maintenance tech and safety from the elements, it could be worthwhile to build domes just to protect outside buildings.

For which buildings would that even be worthwile?

Only works with recharge stations, solar panels and sterlings. so sterlings it will be!