Subjugation cb for pagans and revocation law?

[Tryvenyal]

Hi!

Is Subjugation CB intentionally removed from CK+? If so, how is that motivated?

More of it, why can't pagans revoke? in a tribal pagan lawless world, how is that motivated?

Game- vice, this is ruining the realm management ability for Elective Gavelkind realms, forcing them to constantly conquer new land for their secondary heirs, which really only let you play the blobbing game.

Suggestion:
Implement at new second step to the revocation laws that´s implemented for all pagans that allows revocation but with a cost. Allways a cost. Even for revoking traiters.

There should allways be CB´s for tribals. I mean, tribal agression on neightbors. To a considerable non-gold cost, there should ofc...

I love this mod. but want to be able to play it as a tribal aswell

 

[vukica]

Is Subjugation CB intentionally removed from CK+? If so, how is that motivated?

It's not. Use the "become a king" ambition to get infinite access to subjugation CB in your de jure kingdom.
Pagans also have county conquest on their pagan neighbours, as long as they have a different religion (e.g. slavs can attack tengri).

More of it, why can't pagans revoke? in a tribal pagan lawless world, how is that motivated?

Because they don't have crown authority. Revokation decision is hardcoded, so we'd have to write a completely new one. Technically not possible since scriptable three-way decisions only work for characters, not titles.

Game- vice, this is ruining the realm management ability for Elective Gavelkind realms, forcing them to constantly conquer new land for their secondary heirs, which really only let you play the blobbing game.

Or... reform?

There should allways be CB´s for tribals. I mean, tribal agression on neightbors. To a considerable non-gold cost, there should ofc...

There are rapid conquest CBs which can be enabled in game rules. They only work for small realms though.

 

[Tryvenyal]

It's not. Use the "become a king" ambition to get infinite access to subjugation CB in your de jure kingdom.
Pagans also have county conquest on their pagan neighbours, as long as they have a different religion (e.g. slavs can attack tengri).

But no "once in the lifetime"?

Because they don't have crown authority. Revokation decision is hardcoded, so we'd have to write a completely new one. Technically not possible since scriptable three-way decisions only work for characters, not titles.

Ok. Understund the limitation. In my opinion, the entire vanilla revoke system is wrong. It wrong way around.. with less constitutional laws, the less should a ruler care for things such as it´s vassal´s right to rule a certain area. A tribal brute should not be told that he is not allowed to do X but instead "do it and face the concequeces

Or... reform?

Should.... Does it mean CK2+ team has no intention of supporting tribals in a as great but different play- option as it flavours feudal gameplay? That should be a pity, in my opinion.

There are rapid conquest CBs which can be enabled in game rules. They only work for small realms though.

Thanks, will look it up. To clarify my intent, I don't wan't to have OP tribals. But I see it as flavourless for the interface tell tribal brutes "No you can't". And I know tribals are not the focused area for this mod.

 

[vukica]

The idea is to use advantages of the tribal system to become more powerful. And more poweful means becoming feudal. However...
You can have tribal vassals as a feudal lord without penalties, so it's not that it's a huge leap like in vanilla. And you can call them to arms as if you were tribal.
Only once you get rid of tribal vassals completely, you can switch the administraton to late feudal and imperial.

 

[Tryvenyal]

You can have tribal vassals as a feudal lord without penalties, so it's not that it's a huge leap like in vanilla. And you can call them to arms as if you were tribal.
Only once you get rid of tribal vassals completely, you can switch the administraton to late feudal and imperial.

These parts I like!

The idea is to use advantages of the tribal system to become more powerful. And more poweful means becoming feudal. However...

This part I don´t like. I like the tribal setup, and the challenges with Elective Gavelkind. It´s more than a step towards feudalism for me. Today, I tend to feature them in Vanilla instead of CK2+ though, which is a pity as I love everythnig else about CK2+ but how tribals are featured.

 

[vukica]

Instead of revokation, I'm thinking of a "reclaim land" cb for claimants... That might work.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I´m not following, sorry? Claimants already have a "claim" cb?

Or you mean somthing I can press for my secondary heirs?

If possible, I would like Elective Gavelkind to create duchies too for secondary heirs if that´s the highest tier, not only kingdoms.

 

[vukica]

I mean have a CB to reconquer land from secondary heirs.

Succession is not moddable.

 

[Tryvenyal]

If they go indedpendent, you have claim on all their toptier titles already(In Vanilla atleast.) If they are vassals, you cant declare war on them anyway.

 

[vukica]

If they go indedpendent, you have claim on all their toptier titles already(In Vanilla atleast.) If they are vassals, you cant declare war on them anyway.

Well I'm going to add so you can fight tribal vassals, since there's no feudal contract to break.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Well I'm going to add so you can fight tribal vassals, since there's no feudal contract to break.

Brilliant!!