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FakeShady

Captain
17 Badges
Feb 5, 2017
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  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
Submod I made for myself, thought I'd share.

Reasoning behind the changes are that some aspects of some religions back in vanilla, I felt were really lacking in CK2+. I kinda miss the times large Muslim blobs "explode" to decadence... Catholicism can now do all things Orthodoxy/Miaphysitism can do, but so much more. The vanilla instability brought about by vanilla anitpopes, and the uniqueness of Orthodoxy to mend Schism, are no longer there. Islam no longer has decadence, but lost many powerful CBs too. There is no longer the need for an Islamic realm to constantly "holy war to fight decadence", so to speak. The "flavour" of these religions I feel really aren't there in CK2+ anymore.

Changes:

Catholicism:


-Each antipope now decreases religious authority by 20%, in addition to already requiring 2000 prestige to create
-Catholicism, and its heresies, can no longer mend any Schism nor enforce any councils (Chalcedonian Christianity still can)

Islam:


-Caliphal Subjugation and Muslim Invasion has been brought back from vanilla
-Muslim horde cultures can use both Tribal "Invasion" and the Muslim "Invasion" CBs (Muslim Invasion has been renamed "Religious Invasion" to avoid confusion)
-Religious Invasions now cost 500 piety to declare, and gives 1000 piety upon victory
-Both Caliphal Subjugation and Religious Invasion improves/decreases Court faction mood upon victory/defeat, and Religious Invasion also increased/decreases Imperial Decadence, similar to Tribal Invasion.
-"Decadent Dynasty" trait now decreases general opinion by -15, -30, -45 respectively
-Muslim dynastic males now gain the Decadent trait around 33% more frequently (MTTH changed from 60 to 40 months)

Others:


-All Holy Wars gives the main winning attacker 300 piety and 300 prestige

The Catholicism changes were there, firstly, for balance, secondly because some feel (me included) that "mending Schisms" makes no sense from a Catholic POV. I'll let this thread argue the point
https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/44qu0e/catholics_mend_great_schism/
Whether or not I'm right/wrong is another topic for another day...

The bigger changes to Islam are done so that decadence strikes big dynasties more, and having a Decadent Dynasty hurts more too. The Muslim player is therefore encouraged to declare more Holy Wars, Religious Invasions and Jihads to fight decadence. These CBs now give more piety too, upon victory. Piety should be the lifeblood of Muslims once again. Caliph Subjugation is back to make Caliphs actually feared again, but the "-4 piety a month" penalty remains, and a victory for the Caliph gives no piety, so use as your own risk. Hopefully, with these changes, the "Sword of Islam" can come alive again in CK2+ !!!!!!

Perhaps I'll make one for pagans too... if I ever play them........ lol

:D:D:D


 

Attachments

  • Religious Tweaks.zip
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I like the way you make Muslims stronger, while remaining faithful to CK2+'s spirit. I've always felt that Muslims are not a treath at all in CK2+, unfortunately.
 
This seems to break the ability to press claims again your own religion if Catholic. Both dejure and strong claims are not seen as valid CBs.

Dejure claims need at least Medium CA to press IIRC

In any case I just tested it and its working fine for Catholic vs Catholic. You using other mods? (this submod doesn't touch any Catholic CBs)
 
Dejure claims need at least Medium CA to press IIRC

In any case I just tested it and its working fine for Catholic vs Catholic. You using other mods? (this submod doesn't touch any Catholic CBs)
Just CKIIplus-India, as per the ck2plus instructions.

I'm a vassal of west francia and it wouldn't let me press my ducal claim for the rest of flanders against italy, nor would it let me press a fabricated claim on zeeland against Logarinthia.

Disabling the mod allowed these actions.
 
Just CKIIplus-India, as per the ck2plus instructions.

I'm a vassal of west francia and it wouldn't let me press my ducal claim for the rest of flanders against italy, nor would it let me press a fabricated claim on zeeland against Logarinthia.

Disabling the mod allowed these actions.

Sorry bro, I'm not able to reproduce the bug on any level, Catholic or not, or vassal/indenpendant

On a side note, I see you're not running any DLCs, not even Sword of Islam. I don't think this mod works or does anything without SoI...
 
One question: why Catholics are not able to mend the schism? I know you pointed a thread, but I do not see why a Catholic Pope would not want the great part of Orthodoxy to "recognize" his supremacy, thus mending the Schism.
 
One question: why Catholics are not able to mend the schism? I know you pointed a thread, but I do not see why a Catholic Pope would not want the great part of Orthodoxy to "recognize" his supremacy, thus mending the Schism.

First is balance. Catholics already do pretty much everything Orthodox/Miaphysites can do, but so much more. Crusades, investiture, ability to vassalize the Pope, Invasions. Catholicism starts the bookmarks more dominant too, and always has high Religious Authority.

As for rationale... an Orthodox can technically prove his religion is "correct" by holding all positions of authority (the Pentarchy). "Mending the Schism" for an Orthodox therefore means having all the Pentarchy under Orthodox rule again.

Catholicism believes in the Supremacy of Rome, or the Pope. "Mending the Schism" therefore means having the Orthodox accept the Supremacy of the Pope, aka convert them to Catholicism.

Its just a summary of course. Actual beliefs of both groups are more complicated than that, and will delve into the area of Christian theology... as for me I implemented it mostly for balance purposes, which I believe was the rationale behind vanilla CK2 as well.
 
First is balance. Catholics already do pretty much everything Orthodox/Miaphysites can do, but so much more. Crusades, investiture, ability to vassalize the Pope, Invasions. Catholicism starts the bookmarks more dominant too, and always has high Religious Authority.

As for rationale... an Orthodox can technically prove his religion is "correct" by holding all positions of authority (the Pentarchy). "Mending the Schism" for an Orthodox therefore means having all the Pentarchy under Orthodox rule again.

Catholicism believes in the Supremacy of Rome, or the Pope. "Mending the Schism" therefore means having the Orthodox accept the Supremacy of the Pope, aka convert them to Catholicism.

Its just a summary of course. Actual beliefs of both groups are more complicated than that, and will delve into the area of Christian theology... as for me I implemented it mostly for balance purposes, which I believe was the rationale behind vanilla CK2 as well.

i don't think supremacy of the pope was in dispute, at least not in modern times. the dispute is about what that supremacy allows the pope to do.

the basic sacraments hold the same value in both religions, meaning someone baptised in an orthodox church can receive all common and catholic specfic sacraments in a catholic church.

there *are* some thelogical differences, but iirc they're bigger now than they were 1000 years ago. largely semantics...

EDIT: just checked, papal universal jurisdiction was in dispute. not papal supremacy.
 
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i don't think supremacy of the pope was in dispute, at least not in modern times. the dispute is about what that supremacy allows the pope to do.

the basic sacraments hold the same value in both religions, meaning someone baptised in an orthodox church can receive all common and catholic specfic sacraments in a catholic church.

there *are* some thelogical differences, but iirc they're bigger now than they were 1000 years ago. largely semantics...

EDIT: just checked, papal universal jurisdiction was in dispute. not papal supremacy.

Haha yes! Indeed you're right, I was just giving a brief overview.

(Warning: Theology) It is my knowledge that the Orthodox believes in "Papal Primacy", and specifically reject using the words "Papal Supremacy", a doctrine held by the Roman Catholics. "Papal Primacy" basically means that the Bishop of Rome is "first among equal", but that title is merely honorary.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Primacy_and_Unity_in_Orthodox_Ecclesiology

In game terms, I can you guess say the Schism happened because the Catholics wanted the whole Christian world to read "PAPAL STATE" when you press the upper-left religion tab, and the Orthodox wanted Autocephalous/Pentarch Patriarchs to rule their respective areas when pressing the upper-left religion tab. So in a way one can argue that for the Orthodox, who wants to re-establish the Pentarchy and its respective jurisdictions, "Mending the Schism" means holding the Pentarchy again. For the Catholic Church, "Mending the Schism" means bringing the other side under Rome, aka converting them to Catholicism.

I mostly did it just for balance though :D In real life, would holding all 5 Pentarch Patriarchs really convince the other side that they are wrong? Or convince them to convert? I think its unlikely, and perhaps we'll never really know...