I am under way in a Latin Empire play through in CKII+ and was just wonder what the actual odds of its prolonged survival rate. Was there any chance it could survive? Or would its Orthodox population inevitably welcome back Byzantium by force?
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And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Or, if you prefer it from the mouth of a Roman:
All things fade and quickly turn to myth
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Or, if you prefer it from the mouth of a Roman:
All things fade and quickly turn to myth
I should really read about the Latin Empire more, I know almost nothing about it (which is weird because I'm obsessed with the history of the Byzantine Empire), but from what I do know its chances were basically nil. They various people controlling chunks of it seemed very independent and unwilling to properly work together and their treatment of the native people was quite poor, especially in the way they tried to force them to acknowledge the supremacy of the Pope (IE proselytize them).
Had they completely been an appendage of Venice, I can see it working out, maybe.
But... odds are long. Then again, it did stick around, for what, 50 years or so?
But... odds are long. Then again, it did stick around, for what, 50 years or so?
But how did it manage to stick around for 50 years or so? Was it through strong leadership and sound military action on its part, or was it because its enemies and potential enemies were in disarray or simply too weak to risk a full attack?
I mean hot damn, the Byzantines got their city back by sneaking a general inside and basically banging a few swords together outside the imperial palace to scare the Latin Emperor away. I put it to you that the Latin Empire was not being soundly governed!
Therefore, I'm guessing it only survived for 50 years because its enemies were suffering some serious problems of their own.
Because they were many people coveting the city of world's desire and a useless rump state was better holding it than a real rival power.
Also Constantinople is a great fortress.
Byzantium survived for centuries surrounded by all side by a great power for the same reason. Sieging the city was too risky.
Unfortunatly for the latins their subjects were not much loving them.
the ottomans kept their european empire for almost 2 centuries because their enemies couldn't decide on how to gobble it up.
clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and you can keep on trucking for a long, long time.
They could have tried the same trick the ERE used: conquer an area on the other side of the Med, lose your capital and all your territory so you have to move there, and claim you're the same empire.
First of all Latin Empire had no economy expect looting. Also Greeks were not trusted to hold power so Byzantium Bureacracy collapsed. Latin Empire efficiently was a Feudal State that nobody liked which explains why it went out without a bang.
The same thing could be said for the French or British monarchies at the time.
I imagine the Latin Empire was a bit like what would have occurred if the American Filibusters had ever succeeded in taking over Mexico or Columbia. A group of armed foreigners, utterly disdainful of the local population's religion and customs, holding on to a few estates and not much else. The sort of thing only possible when the area is already divided and exhausted.
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I think the Kingdom of Jerusalem had better odds. Both states came into being and survived as they did entirely due to regional instability, and were removed once neighbors got their shit together.
The Latin Empire's best hope IMO is a silly one... bring in people from the other side of the black sea that were crushed by Mongols, settle them in Anatolia, push Nicaea out or east, curb the (re-)rise of the Turks. Also the "how could Nazi Germany win" solution of the leaders magically dying off would sure help.
The Latin Empire's best hope IMO is a silly one... bring in people from the other side of the black sea that were crushed by Mongols, settle them in Anatolia, push Nicaea out or east, curb the (re-)rise of the Turks. Also the "how could Nazi Germany win" solution of the leaders magically dying off would sure help.