Take Command - 2nd Manassas Beta AAR

[unmerged(52445)]

Hi!

I was fortunate to have gotten my hands on the beta and have been putting it through its paces. The other day I fought a really great battle so I thought I would do an AAR. I will be posting here in parallel with a thread I started at MMG's forum, but thought you guys might find it more comfortable reading it here, in your own backyard.

The battle was fought using the Open Play feature of the game. The battle type is a Strategic Engagement with VP's. The map is the 2ndM_29th, I am commanding the Army of Northern Virginia as Lee, with a game length of long. Difficulty setting is Normal.

You should note that in Open Play you have the option to fight Division, Corps or Army sized battles and can also choose, if you wish, to play any single commanding officer within that structure. So there are a trememdous amount of options to play to fit the players desires.

I'm a fairly experienced player of MMG's "The Civil War: Bull Run" and was at one time a tester. So let's get on with the show...

Here is the Strategic Map at the beginning of the game:

For old timers used to MMG's first release "The Civil War: Bull Run," they will know that in these type of battles normally the opposing army would be more or less on the other side of the map. This does not seem to apply to "Take Command: 2nd Manassas." The enemy can litterally appear from any quarter, so right from the beginning the player must be prepared for a fight. This change in army placement puts your army at risk from the first moment you begin play.

Because of this change in the random placement of the armies, the player doesn't have a whole lot of time to develop a good overall strategy. The player must be quick out of the blocks, expect the unexpected and seek to gain the initiative quickly. In these large battles, game mechanics must be second nature and the player must be able to order divisions in litterally seconds.

At the Army level you will find yourself commanding a large amount of forces, in this case the Army of Northern Viriginia has 50,000 men and 8 divisions. When the game started, I immediately brought up the strategic map. The objective of this game is to take and hold the Major Objective point in the northern part of the map south of Cushing Farm. Note, it is solid gold, which indicates that neither side at the moment has possession of it. I start the game controlling a minor objective in the vicinity of Mrs. Henry's house, and it is thus filled in with red. I looked over the situation, developed a quick strategic plan and put it into motion as quickly as I could.

Here is a screen of my plan:

Overall, my plan sought to first dominte the clear area in the center of the map, driving toward the ploughed field there.

Hill (light blue), Lawton (black) and Jones (orange) would lead the assault supported by Starke (dark blue). My right flank would be covered by Wilcox (light green) and my left flank would be guarded by Kemper (light pink). Anderson (brown) and Hood (Gray) would serve as my reserve.

Within moments, as I was busily ordering by divisions forward and giving them stances (attack for Hill and Lawton, for example), union troops began appearing in the clearing opposing my advance. These troops would turn out to be Lt Col Hamilton's 2nd Division IX Corps/AotP. A fight at close quarters almost immediately broke out.

This screen shows the opening shots. Hamilton aggressively opposed my advance. Two of his regiments charged into Hill's infantry. In the center left of the shot you will see that one of the assaults was thrown back with the blue bellies running away after have been routed. In the very center the yanks assault routed my rebs, and the remnants of this regiment can be seen being fired on by the Yankees. Note also that the Yank artillery is set-up in the ploughed field, giving them an excellent field of fire, that my artillery is being rushed forward in support, and that a brigade of Hill's troops are entering into the woods on the left flank of the Yankee artillery.

The battle has reached its 9th minute.

I'll be posting more action as soon as I have time. The battle turned out nothing like I expected it to be. Hopefully you guys will enjoy it.

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[unmerged(45769)]

Very exciting, the first Beta AAR just after the announcement of the game being published by Paradox

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I looked over the situation, developed a quick strategic plan and put it into motion as quickly as I could.

Does this mean there is no pause button ?

Like in Paradox game you can pause the game, give orders to units and then unpause.

I don't know if you are allowed to talk about this, maybe it is NDA.

 

[unmerged(52198)]

There is a pause button, but you cannot give orders while paused. I find it quite handy to pause the game at the start to get a grasp of the situation, and then I formulate my plan.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

Hi!

While it is true that you can't actually give orders during pause, the pause function gives you time to look around and figure out what you want to do. You can also use the pause to give a quick succession of commands if you need to, here's how:

Let's say, for example, I decide I need to move an infantry regiment, order a cavalry unit to scout and send an order to a subordinate.. and fast. You pause the game, look around for the regiment, click on the regiment, now unpause the game and give him the order to move. As soon as this is finished, you hit the pause again. Now you find the cavalry unit and select him... etc.

However, I really don't think you will find this very satisfying. Yes, it's there in case of an emergency, but the real emphasis in this game is command. And the real bonus is that the friendly AI is so good, it will carry out your commands well. Does that mean you will not ever need to "Take Command" of a situation? Of course not. Taking Command is what this game is all about. The question is, when to take command. In large games, like the AAR that I am doing, your focus is a "big picture" kinda thing. If you dwell too long on a tactical problem, you will lose the big picture and the AI will punish you. So you have to be careful when to intervene. The Army level is by far the most difficult level to play this game. You must rely on your commanders to execute your orders and know when to take command to carry the day. The beauty of this engine is that IMHO, it has one of the best AI's I have ever seen.

Now at the lower levels such as brigade and even corps, it is not unheard of to take command of everything under your control. Even though the game is real time, you should be able to cope with the situation once you learn the game mechanics without needing a "pause and order" function. So, don't be frightened by the lack of a normal "pause and order" function, it was designed that way for a purpose.

Take care,

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[unmerged(34884)]

Looks like a cool game.

About the pausing, I prefer not to pause, even in games like HOI2 i dont like to pause. And in this game it doesnt seem to be necessary so thats cool.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Thanks for the answers.

It sounds great.

EDIT
Since I have a rather old computer I am almost force to pause the game and then give orders else it is a very hard to do.

Yes, I know get a new. And I will pretty soon, I hope :rofl:

 

[unmerged(52198)]

Even though the game is real time, you should be able to cope with the situation once you learn the game mechanics without needing a "pause and order" function. So, don't be frightened by the lack of a normal "pause and order" function, it was designed that way for a purpose.

Good point Ray. Note that in this game "real time" is just that. Time is at a 1:1 ratio, that is 1 second of time in the game equals 1 second of time in the real world. Also note that when things are quiet, you can speed things up to 4:1 where 4 seconds of game time equals 1 second of real time. Once fighting starts though, the game throttles back to 1:1 and you cannot increase it until fighting stops.

 

[Gaute65]

Good point Ray. Note that in this game "real time" is just that. Time is at a 1:1 ratio, that is 1 second of time in the game equals 1 second of time in the real world. Also note that when things are quiet, you can speed things up to 4:1 where 4 seconds of game time equals 1 second of real time. Once fighting starts though, the game throttles back to 1:1 and you cannot increase it until fighting stops.

Wow, thats real time

@Rayrivers. Nice AAR.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

Okay!

Let's get back to the fight.

Hill has moved aggressively on the Union position. But as he moves in for the kill, more and more Yankees begin appearing on my right flank. You can see them there on the hills at the top of screen. I've got Hamilton's Division isolated and decide I have to annihilate him quickly. But to do so, I have to change my plan, wheeling my army to the right at the same time to face the Yankee reinforcements. As Lawton's advance has been slowed by forrest, I turn to Starke on the left wing of the attack and order his division in assault lines to destroy the remnants of the Hamilton's troops.

Here we see a shot showing my order to Brig Gen Starke. Notice on the left side of the screen you see arrows with Rebel flags, this indicates where each unit of Starke's division as been ordered to move using the assult lines formation. General Starke has a stance (general order) to attack (the red icon with the three arrows on the tool box and the bottom right corner of the screen). General Starke (the AI) is no idiot, he will not advance blindly to those positions. As soon as he is within firing range his troops will deploy, attack the enemy and move to secure the general area that I have ordered him to move to. What I am really saying to him is "take this objective."

Notice also in the tree line to the north of the yankee battery is Col Thomas' brigade from Hill's divsion. In the upper center of the screen you can see the ominous buildup of Union forces as they attempt to reinforce Hamilton.

Here is a shot from the other direction. Notice in the distance (top right hand corner by the compass) lead elements of General Starke's division are advancing on the Union postion, which now contains only 2 regiments of infantry and an artillery battery. I decide I must crush this force quickly and so I now "Take Command" of Col. Thomas' brigade. Notice in the tool box on the bottom right hand corner the "fist" icon is on. This indicates I have taken command of the unit. Also notice above it that the chain link is now broken. That means this command has been detached from its commander, General Hill. I personally order these guys into a position where they can fire directly on the enemy battery. In doing so they route two guns and themselves are destoryed by cannister fire. But it is enough, as between Hill and Starke, Hamilton will now be quickly overcome.

This shot is also interesting because it illustrates the transparant tree feature which allows you to easily control troops while in forrests. This feature is scaleable, and I have it set at 400 yards.

After taking command of Thomas Brigade and throwing them against the Union artillery, I quickly return to the strategic problem facing me, the Yankee buildup on my right flank. I wheel my forces to meet their threat. Starke will now be my new left flank He is reinforced by Hood. Hill and Jones will form the center of my new line. Lawton, who was slowed by the trees wheels right to take up the right flank. You can see his position by looking for the "eye" symbol, which is on the rear elements of his division and the green cross which is on the front of his division. Wilcox, who was ordered initially to protect my right flank was now in a perfect position to outflank the blue bellies. He is given attack orders. Notice the two cavalry regiments scouting in front of his advance.

The screen also shows that the Major Objective Symbol has turned blue, indicating the yankees now have it in their position. I will have 55 minutes to wrestle control away from them or I will lose the battle. Also notice that the two Minor Objective Symbols have disappeared. Minor Objectives need only be held for a short amount of time (3-8 minutes). After that time, they disappear and the army possessing them receives points for having captured them. Both fall to the Army of Northern Virginia.

Nevertheless, the possession of the Major Objective by the Yankees is a bad omen. The majority of my army has had to shift away from the objective and it is highly unlikely I will be able to both destroy the enemy and capture the Major Objective. It's time to gamble, and I decide that I must use my only reserves, Kemper and Anderson (the two most extreme left divsions at the start of the game), to launch a frontal assault.

We shall see what happens...

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[herm]

And the real bonus is that the friendly AI is so good, it will carry out your commands well.

What kind of commands can I give, am I able to say: "Go over to that place and set up a defensive position." And the unit will go over there avoiding objects like houses and such and react to, say, an enemy unit attacking them while they are on their way?

And what happens if my unit finds out the designated area is already occupied by the enemy, do they stop and engage or charge or just stop, or does that differ from time to time?

Edit: From your last update I got some more info, keep it coming.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

What kind of commands can I give, am I able to say: "Go over to that place and set up a defensive position."

Hi!

Yes, that is exactly what you do but it is a two step process. Here is how it works.

You select the Commander and then double click on the ground where you want him to move to. You then click on the formation you want this troops to deploy in. There are a number of formations depending on what type of command it is. For example, you can order a brigade into double line or battle line. You can order a division into battle line with a central reserve. These formations are on the top line of the tool box. After you have decided where to move your troops, you can even order them to get there the fastest route possible, by road.

Once you have decided (or even before) where you want your formation to move to, you can assign him a "stance." This is a general order on what he is to do. These orders include attack, probe or defend. If your unit comes into contact before receiving a stance, his "personality" will play heavily on how he reacts. A "bold" commander, for example, will probably attack. Look up at the screen of Starke, notice his "Style" is bold.

Oh, by the way, setting or changing stances requires a courier being sent from the commander to the unit. The courier is generated automatically when you hit the stance button. Thus, the farther away the formation is from the Commander, the longer it will take for him to receive the order. The courier is depicted on the strategic map as a cavalryman and he is an actual unit which can be killed if intercepted. I'll make sure on the next set of screens you get to see a courier.

Hope I answered your questions.

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[herm]

Thanks for the answers, and a very nice touch with the courier, me like.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

So..back to the battle...

As Hamilton's Division crumbles and breaks, the rebel juggernaut turns north east.

Hill while leading the assault on Hamilton was also engaged with Maj Gen Reno's IX Corps of the Army of the Potomac on his right flank. Now, supported by Jones the rebel's surge forward like an irresistible force.

On the right flank, Lawton smashes into Lt Col Chapman's 2nd Brigade, 2nd Division/V corps/AotP who has already lost contact with the rest of the Yankee line due to a penetration by Hill's troops. Wilcox, swinging around the flank envelopes him, and destroys his troops rapidly. It is obvious to me now that the Army of Northern Virginia has found the Yankee left flank, and with half the reb army falling upon them and enveloping them, they are shattered and being crushed.

As Wilcox begins to roll up the yankee flank held by V Corps and which can be seen in the background, the 1st/2nd/3rd Squadrons of the 3rd Virginia Cavalry charges Lt Radol's isolated Battery E/G, 1st US Artillery. Notice in the tool bar the little lightening bolt is lit. That means that the cavalry have been set on "Send to raid weak enemy targets." This is one of four missions the cavalry can undertake. These missions are Scout, Screen, Guard and Raid. If you notice in the second shot, you can make out another cavalry unit in the forrest to the rear of Chapman's yanks. Should any of his regiments break, the cavalry will fall upon them and guarantee they will not regroup but be driven from the field

So far, I have rolled over the yankees through sheer weight, having isolated at least 2 divisions and destroying them. If one looks back at the last strategic map, you will see that the Union Army has placed a large quantity of artillery in the vicinity of the Van Pelt House. It is on high ground with a significant clear killing ground in front of it. Also notice that yankee activity has been seen in the area to the west of the wood north of the Van Pelt house. I'm betting that this is where I will meet major resistence, and begin rolling my artillery batteries forward to positions which can assist me in the upcoming assault....

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[unmerged(34884)]

Just keep on rolling over them with the Cav. Slice 'em and Dice 'em. Go Lee!

 

[unmerged(18239)]

It lookes very much like a re-make of Sid Meiers Gettysburg only then at 2nd BR.

As that is still one of my fav games I am very happy this game is being develloped and by the best company around

But: will something be done about the troops disposition at the start, will it be historical?
Terrain-feautures like the railroad-cut. Do they strengthen your position?

And why is there so much chaos, all those regiments look like they are fighting on their own?

looking forwards to more screenies.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

Hi!

Well, I'll explain as best as I can, but not being on the developers team may require a future response from a member of MMG.

Take Command: 2nd Manassas has three distinct sections for game play.

First, you will have battles representing the different actions that were fought during 2nd Manassas. These will be at the brigade, division, corps and army levels. The starting points and objectives will come right out of history. MMG has advertised that there will be 48 scenarios that ship with the game, some having a "carry-over" feature that will take you from one part of the day to the next. Thus, you will have ample scenarios to refight the battle from a detailed historical point of view.

The second section of the game is called Open Play. It is a skirmish type game with random starting points. Open Play has several game types. These include Attack, Defend, Meeting Engagement and Strategic Engagement. Each of these battle types may be fought at the division, corp or army level. The game that I am illustrating here is a Strategic Engagement Open Play battle with objectives. Open play also alllows the player to choose who in the Order of Battle he wants to play. The player has the choice of playing any commander in the order of battle, and in my case I have chosen the army commander himself, Lee. If, however, I decided to play Hill, for example, the friendly AI would play all the other elements of the army, and I would be given orders by the Lee, for which I would be expected to carry out. Open play also has variable victory conditions (score) which can be found in the Options Section. So as one can see there is a huge variety of games that can be generated in the Open Play section of the game.

The reason I am playing Lee in this AAR is because it is by far the most difficult level of command. He has 8 divisions, each with at least 3 brigades and 2 artillery batteries and attached cavalry. If I wanted I could control all these of these commands, including component regiments, but to do so would be totally overwhelming. Fortunately, I do not have to, as the friendly AI does a great job of carrying out your orders. Thus, as army commander, I try to maintain the perspective of that level. I issue orders to my division commanders who then execute those orders. I do have the opportunity to "take command" of any component should the need arise, but if, as the Army Commander I get too concentrated on a small tactical action, I will lose the "Big Picture" around me, and the enemy AI will punish me badly for doing so. So, while it may seem quite chaotic, just as most battles in those times undoubtedly were, in fact a good army commander most maintain the big picture, order his divisions, protect his flanks, move artillery to support his attacks and use cavalry to scout ahead. So to answer another of your questions, yes, indeed the actually fighting that is occuring is being carried out by the AI in response to my orders. Also remember, I am attacking, so I have ordered most of my divisions to attack in waves to overwhelm the yanks and am not interested in forming battle lines. Indeed, because Army Commander is quite difficult to play, most players will play at the lower levels of command where they have more opportunity to get down into the weeds and micromanage their forces. It simply depends on what you find is fun. For me, I love playing at the Army Commander level.

There is a third type of game available. These are user scenarios and are reserved for players who mod the game and create their own battles. These battles can be shared with the community.

MMG's games are characterized by an outstanding AI. In fact the game was built from the AI up. The AI is a formidible adversary and a trusted friend who can be counted on to carry out your orders.

Hope that answers your questions.

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[unmerged(52198)]

But: will something be done about the troops disposition at the start, will it be historical?
Terrain-feautures like the railroad-cut. Do they strengthen your position?

In the scenarios, the starting positions of the troops are historically accurate. As to the unfinnished railroad, it is the most prominent terrain feature in many of the scenarios and it does provide a defensive bonus.

 

[unmerged(52445)]

Hi!

Sooooo, at this point of the battle it was time to reevaluate my plan and push forward. After 27 minutes I had the yankees reeling and had to keep the pressure on. It's always difficult to estimate, but I believe by this point at least 5 of Pope's 11 Divisions had been overrun.

Here's what my new plan looked like:

Wilcox (light green) was ordered forward to maintain the outflanking momentum he had achieved. Lawton (black) was ordered forward to support Wilcox. Hill (light blue) and Jones (orange) were ordered forward to continue applying pressure on the yankee front line. Starke (dark blue) was ordered to take up a position to protect my left flank, and Hood (gray) was ordered to attempt to penatrate and outflank the yanks but this time from the west.

Kemper (light pink) and Anderson (brown) were now sufficiently concentrated to order an advance on the Major Objective.

Once these orders were given, various cavalry units received orders to scout and raid, and I began taking command of artillery batteries, moving them into positions to support my main attack and to provide extra muscle for the attack on the Major Objective. The clear area that Starke would occupy to protect the left flank was a priorty position to get artillery into as from that position with its open field of fire they would be able to support Hood's attack from a flanking position while at the same time bombard any federal troops attempting to reinforce from the north.

As a sidelight, 3rd Cavalry, after having overrun one battery, succeeded in partially overrunning a second a bit further to the north before, exhausted, they were forced from the field. Their heroism in this action would be reported to Richmond in my dispatch concerning the battle.

WOW, this thread is getting loooong!

RayRivers (aka Lava)

 

[unmerged(18239)]

WOW, this thread is getting loooong!

For an AAr on this forum it is stil short

this game really looks like the thing I have been waiting for for all the time.