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Tech Sharing Among Human Players

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Diefledermas

Diefledermas

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Ok,

I know this topic has been discussed before but I now agree with those who think the game makes it just a little to easy to share technology among human players.

I'm thinking that sharing 1 technology per country per quarter (i.e. 4 times per year) is a pretty reasonable house rule.

Also, "coordinated" research isn't all that realistic or "in the spirit" of the game.

Further, I think the Allies should be limited to trading 1 tech per year each to the Russians (since the Communists and the Democracies really weren't that good friends).

I personally despise house rules but this is an obvious game mechanic that needs to be adjusted in the future. I am very curious to any and all thoughts on the matter since I'm still trying to figure it out myself.
 
Agreed

I dont like "coordinated" tech programs either, but the game dosent have a control, and if you dont have a house rule on tech research you really dont have a choice.

Knowing that the game has the feature as a strategist you have to account for it and maximize it, if you dont surely someone else will. The Mp group I play in has unlimited tech trading between allies and 12 tech trades a year to non allies.

An awful lot but it moves the game along and gets everyone up and running. Personally my house rule preference would be to allow tech trading between allies unlimited but no major alliances until 1938. This way for 2 game years your on your own for tech research which makes you manage your game more and then by 38 most MP games are at war anyway so coordinated tech research wouldnt be that far fetched IMHO. If I am in the Allies and USA I sure as hell am going to focus inf, and armor and let the UK focus on Naval and swap with one another. I dont think thats non historical its just when it starts in 36 that is, and that can kill an MP for someone with out an ally.

2 cents

Odin
 
As I've been fearing, there is plenty of justification for sharing tech. I think the root problem is the cost is just too cheap. I needs to be fixed in the game mechanics
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas
As I've been fearing, there is plenty of justification for sharing tech. I think the root problem is the cost is just too cheap. I needs to be fixed in the game mechanics
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Well, in 1.00 you could send all your tech to everyone in one day, heh:D
 
The problem with tech sharing is that tech has a drastic effect on the fighting performance of units. Anyone who has played SP knows that. If there is unlimited tech sharing, USSR can get as good or better tech than Germany. If there is only tech sharing within an alliance, Japanese and Italian troops will be as good as German troops, which would be drastically better than the Soviet Union. Some kind of middle ground has to be reached, and I am not sure where it lies.

As far as coordinated research, he is right: It is not historical, it is not right, but it has to be done in case the other person does it.
 
Our Rules

We allow:

4 shares per year (total) to your Allies
1 share per year to anybody you want, for a total of 5 shares a year
Neutrals can make 1 share per year
No sharing between Comintern and Allies until one is at war with Axis, then when both are at war with Axis, can trade as Allies.

Never more than 5 shares/year.
 
Well, i think Commonwealth sharing should be unlimited. As USA-Commonwealth after USA is allied.

No Allies sharing with Comintern, before the war, after that some limitation. After that, perhaps one per month or something, total.

Axis can share with Comintern, though. They should share unlimitely, neither with Comintern nor with each other. One per month, perhaps.

Neutrals with one per quarter seem ok, even if very low.

The effective sharing rater without limitations is something like 3 per month if player pays attention to it. Not that much, actually, considering the fact there is a lot of techs.
 
To make a point about "tech sharing" historically among even the closest of allies (the USA and the UK)

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning was ordered by the United Kingdom. When the first of 143 arrived in 1941, after evaluation the order was cancelled. The reason for this?

The US banned the export of turbochargers.

My point is that even the USA and the UK held back technology from eachother, so free tech exchange (even among "commonwealth" nations) isn't historically accurate.
 
Originally posted by Diefledermas
To make a point about "tech sharing" historically among even the closest of allies (the USA and the UK)

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning was ordered by the United Kingdom. When the first of 143 arrived in 1941, after evaluation the order was cancelled. The reason for this?

The US banned the export of turbochargers.

My point is that even the USA and the UK held back technology from eachother, so free tech exchange (even among "commonwealth" nations) isn't historically accurate.
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Its not like its free. You get 3-4 di per month, and thats about it. And many countries to send many techs to.
 
Is the one week time limit for tech sharing hard coded? If not, it should be fairly easy to edit to whatever time period that the players decide is reasonable (I think all players would have to edit for this to work). It would have been nice if the host had the ability, just as he does to set difficulty and speed level, to set the number of allowable trades per month.

Another historical example of tech trading failure: Germany offered Italy the blueprints to build German tanks, but this was refused by Italy, I think because the Italians didn't want to swallow their pride and admit that their tanks were inferior to German ones.
 
Originally posted by MishkaZaznaykin
Is the one week time limit for tech sharing hard coded? If not, it should be fairly easy to edit to whatever time period that the players decide is reasonable (I think all players would have to edit for this to work). It would have been nice if the host had the ability, just as he does to set difficulty and speed level, to set the number of allowable trades per month.

Another historical example of tech trading failure: Germany offered Italy the blueprints to build German tanks, but this was refused by Italy, I think because the Italians didn't want to swallow their pride and admit that their tanks were inferior to German ones.
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I think its hardcoded.
 
I think after reviewing the options posted so far and playing an MP game for 4 (game) years with all side swapping tech like mad I have determined the only (current) game balancer is no tech trading, period.

This will (I think) recapture some of the spirit of tech research. Do you get those shiny new guns? retool your industry? or build a better mousetrap.

I know the "gimme it all fast" junkies will argue this point but after watching the USA drop into Japan with M1 Abrams in 1940 I realized the tech trading was out of control (and Maur, I did think your amphibious landing was still brillant).

So, my vote is NO tech trading, period - until the actually game is changed, for one thing it should cost both the sender and reciever some IC (now that would make some people pause)
 
Hmmm, no tech sharing at all would make minors even weaker than now...

Maybe only three major majors should be prohibited from sharing tech at all?
 
Yeah, I know no tech sharing is an imperfect solution.

How about this:

each major can share 2 techs per year, period

If they want to give it to minors or "trade", no restrictions who gets it, just the 2 trade rule.
 
It would be very easy to cheat with any restriction that does not allow infinite tech sharing with minors. If you share tech with minors in excess of the limited amount allowed, there is really no effective way to prove that you did it, unless the game is saved very often and the techs that a tech-rich minor has is compared to the tech that a major has.

EDIT: Is the events log for minors preserved after a save? If it is, the log of a tech-rich minor could be examined to see if it received excessive techs from a major.
 
I think between Bigglesworth, myself, and Darthmaur we may have come up with an imperfect solution. But first, to respond to the "cheating" issue.

There are a lot of ways to cheat in this game. An honor code is the best you can hope for.

Here is the "compromise" deal we worked about between myself (not tech trades), Maur (full open trading), and Big (in the middle)

6 trades per year per human player. (NOTE: we explored the unlimited minor trading but Bigglesworth quickly identified how to use a minor as a laundry to wash tech trades)

all trades are made done every 2 months when the game is paused and every country shares 1 tech (if they desire of course).

To recap:

1 trade per human player every 2 months to any other country.

One rule that is in debate but yet to be ratified is no sharing of land/air/sea doctrines or nuclear technology

And note to Prince Eugen, you are 100% correct about playing the game and having fun. I don't like house rules either - this tech is a real thorn though.
 
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