Tech Sharing in MP - again

[unmerged(9612)]

The problem: tech share is currently too easy and advantages the side with the most countries (i.e the allies)..

The AI automatically trades tech, so typically in a full house at least 3 of the 4 commonwealth (aussies, NZ, canada, SA) are not played by humans and will be sharing with allies thus increasing advantages even further.

Banning tech share all together is not too good as it restricts options and diplomacy and does not solve the above AI auto share advantage.

Giving each country the same number of tech shares per year (e.g. 4 per year) still advantages the side with the most countries i.e the allies.. In a typical 5 allies 3 axis situations that's a total of 20 for the allies ( + auto tech share from the commonwealth) + comintern and 12 for the axis ....

So if u want to limit tech share a simple system does not work. It has to be more complex and by country (agree its difficult to track).

I suggest the following limits on giving/receiving tech to.from human players based on a mix of play balance and historicity

Germany :
Give : 6 per year to allies, 2 per year to any country
Receive: 3 per year

US:
Give : 4 per year to allies, 2 per year to any country
Receive: none

Soviet
Give : 2 per year to allies, 2 per year to any country
Receive: 4 per year

UK :
Give: 3 per year to allies, 1 per year to any country
Receive: 3 per year

Japan:
give: 3 per year to allies, 2 per year to any country
receive: 3 per year

Italy:
give: 2 per year to allies, 2 per year to any country
receive : 3 per year

All other countries
give : 1 per year to allies, 1 per year to any country
receive : 2 per year

 

[Mr.Bigglesworth]

When you start getting alternate alliances, things get all out of whack then.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

My expirence

I play the UK a lot. In the group I am in we have had all sorts of tech share rules. Currently it is 4 per year per nation non cumulative. You can trade them to whomever you want and for what ever price you can barter and at any point in the year, meaning all 4 in the first qtr if you choose.

The problem is this rule dosent account for the Commonwealth trades which Tomar points out. The UK gets 2-3 techs a year from the commonwealth nations and over time the quality seems to increase. Clear advantage for allied players here and I have yet to think of a fair way to make it equitable.

In my case I used my tech trades as part of a deal with another nation, however if I hadnt had that deal I would have given my techs to commonwealth nations and then it would have been traded again expodentially. This is a game balance issue but I dont know how to balance it for the commintern and the axis, I am inclined to think that maybe cutting down the tech trades for Allied players or increasing them for Axis might do it but Im not quite sure.

This is a great topic and one that I have thought about but cant come to a fair conclusion for the other alliances. I like your idea Tomar but I am opposed to limiting recieved tech there are IC issues for a lot of countries and for me playing one of the smaller minors I am always looking to negotiate hard to get "early war exp analysis" from who ever I can and eliminate the 42 ic exp.

I have to say though your solution is defniately the best one I have seen so far that addresses the Commonwealth AI trade issue in an MP environment. I am still of the school of thought that tech trades should cost in DI what it took in IC to obtain the research PLUS a add on DI cost for the reality of the trade, language barriers, shipments, etc.

If that could be modified that would be great then that "early war Exp Analysis" would cost 42+ DI everytime it was traded and at least would prevent some AI nations from tech trading to much via the limit of DI, and human played nations from really managing thier tech trades, however it would require a more equitable DI system for minors and majors, maybe to complex of a wish.

Odin

 

[Diefledermas]

I posted this elsewhere but it seems to work

Every country may share tech once per month to any country they choose. The nations of Germany, UK, USA, USSR, and Japan may only receive "silver" techs. France, Italy, Nationalist China, and everyone else may receive "gold" or "silver" techs. No doctrines (land/sea/air) may be shared ever. AI tech sharing (obviously) has no bearing on these rules.

As far as the unequal number of human traders goes. I've thought about this too. Here would be my thoughts on it.

UK, France, USA are the definate Allies (3)
Germany, Italy, Japan are the definate Axis (3)
Nationalist China is a probable Ally (1)
USSR is alone (1)

3 v. 3 v. 1 v. 1

now, with the tech rules above, you need to think a little about who you're trading with. UK could share a tech with China but at the expense of giving one to USA and supporting the "tech race". USSR could share with the Allies or the Axis but any share could bite them on the ass (and vice versa). Allied sharing with Russia now requires some thought due to the loss of "inter-alliance" shares. Russia tends not to share tech for nothing.

As far as Commonwealth AI sharing. Part of me feels this is par for the course. If the UK chooses to share tech with the Commonwealth instead of France/USA, etc... to promote more Commonwealth trading it is more of a strategic choice than a game unbalancer (with the above rules of course)

The one thing all this rests on is that the Axis and the Allies have an equal number of human players. If you have 4 players then you need 2 Axis/2 Allied, etc... Granted you need a Russian player no matter what so I guess you always need an odd number of players (or 8, because China isn't really a tech share "contributer")

 

[unmerged(14719)]

Tech Share

Hmm, Actually Tech Share from Allies is not only 3 to 4 a year. In a recent game which i was playing with Tomar...... I was Canada, and my Land tech Skyrocketed by march 36.

This was due to the fact that i got 2 techs in Jan, 3 techs in Feb and 3/4 techs in March just from the allies.....

Also, i've also seen the AI actually giving Tech to let u build the appropriate stuff. In that particular game as Canada, i was getting on average 1 to 2 techs a month.......plus, the AI seemed to be streamlining certains techs to me...in 2 cases, playing as Canada. The AI gave me the appropriate techs to allow me to get Med Subs.....

This was kind of wierd as it almost felt like the AI was trying to give me Med subs on purpose.

However, I think this tech share triggers if you are really far behind in a certain category. On the both occasions, I was going for a Air/para strategy and ignoring Land and naval Techs...so maybe this tech sharing occurs. As in another game as Canada, i change my research strategy and instead started getting less tech.....settings was normal on all three cases......

Only an opinion mind you...but incidentally, have any of you experienced this?