I think it's overpowered, landtech = 11 compared to Russia's 3 and Lithuania's 3 is way too much. Slow them down?
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For what reason? They still get crushed very quickly by their overmighty enemies Poland, Lithuania, Sweden and sometimes Russia. In my opinion, it is even necessary to strengthen them or to protect them in some way to prevent them from being annexed long before their historical demise where they will be annexed no matter how they have done before. Therefore a strong TO is not much of a problem for game balance (as long as they do not annex Sweden or Lithuania, but that is not too likely).
IIRC the "Fate of the TO" event is needed to have Royal Prussia emerge in the 17th century, which makes it even more desirable to let them survive long enough.
IIRC the "Fate of the TO" event is needed to have Royal Prussia emerge in the 17th century, which makes it even more desirable to let them survive long enough.
They hardly were unbeatable before, it's just that noone was interested in their lands. However, the discrepancy in landtech between Russia and Lithuania and TO (and the rest of West Europe) is staggering.
I thought that there was supposed to be a great difference in land tech/ technology in general between Eastern and Western Europe.
I think that progress in land tech starts to become very rapid at about 7 or 8, then maybe slows again? I would expect a short time where West Europe catapults thru those median levels before Eastern Europe reaches them.
I don't think it was that different. Russia started using firearms and cannons at the time of Ivan III and that's landtech level 7 if I'm not mistaken. 11 vs 7-8 I can understand, but 3?
So where was the rest of Western Europe compared to TO?
I only ask because I wonder if it a question of slowing down the TO or speeding up Russia and/or Lithuania? (script "Invest in land tech. by Ivan or Peter" events maybe???)
In addition, is this a consistent phenomenon? I will try to check out some of my current games to see where they are if you like.
I only ask because I wonder if it a question of slowing down the TO or speeding up Russia and/or Lithuania? (script "Invest in land tech. by Ivan or Peter" events maybe???)
In addition, is this a consistent phenomenon? I will try to check out some of my current games to see where they are if you like.
That is right, but I do not think that it would be good to weaken them even more. After all, they only lost Danzig in their war against Poland and Lithuania. Maybe all foreign CB shields on Prussian and TO lands except for Poland's claim on Danzig should be removed at the start of the Grand Campaign and added by the Fate of the Order event and the TO and Prussia should be removed from Poland's, Lithuania's, Sweden's, Russia's and Denmark's conquer list to give them a better chance to keep their territory until the historical demise happens.
Roughly the same. I (Portugal) is at level 10, but England is at 6. Russia is at level 3, and they expanded eastward significantly, but for whatever reason they refuse to conquer Novgorod. If they've taken Novogorod and its CoT they probably jump to level 5 possibly.
It may be that they might need a little push in the back, but with 2 CoTs they usually fare much much better (that was one of the ideas behind it anyways).
The TO needs as much help as it can get. I never see it survive to the End of the TO event.
BarristerBoy
The end of the TO happened because they were being overrun by their neighbors. If this happens in the 15th century as opposed to the 16th century the end of the TO event should happen.
What about triggering the end of the TO event when the TO is reduced to ONLY its capital province. Instead of wating (hoping) the TO survives (as it does in only 1 out of 5 games) untill the early-mid 16th century. The end of the TO event is important no only to kurland, prussia but to sweden, russia, denmark and P-L. Since this is the event which gives everybody and their dog CBs on the TO territories and results in the massive land grabs. This is the basis for the great northern war the careers of the swedish karls ect.ect.
So for a new end of TO event
This end of TO event will trigger when the TO has lost all at start provinces except their capital. So the TO can disintigrate in 1420 or 1820 if they should survive so short or so long. The date that the event historically happened should not prevent it happeneing earlyer.
What about triggering the end of the TO event when the TO is reduced to ONLY its capital province. Instead of wating (hoping) the TO survives (as it does in only 1 out of 5 games) untill the early-mid 16th century. The end of the TO event is important no only to kurland, prussia but to sweden, russia, denmark and P-L. Since this is the event which gives everybody and their dog CBs on the TO territories and results in the massive land grabs. This is the basis for the great northern war the careers of the swedish karls ect.ect.
So for a new end of TO event
This end of TO event will trigger when the TO has lost all at start provinces except their capital. So the TO can disintigrate in 1420 or 1820 if they should survive so short or so long. The date that the event historically happened should not prevent it happeneing earlyer.
How about a provincesize = 1 trigger (or maybe 3). Just in case they have an earthspaning empire and have lost all their cores.
Yeah, I forgot all about the provincesize trigger. Thats much better. The idea was that the TO should be dissolved when they are reduced to their last province.
You mean countrysize?
And countrysize = 1 will trigger for anyone but the pirates and rebels
(i.e. anyone with 1 or more provinces...) NOT = { countrysize = 2 } will trigger only for one-province countries.
Originally posted by Havard
You mean countrysize?
And countrysize = 1 will trigger for anyone but the pirates and rebels
NOT = { countrysize = 2 } will trigger only for one-province countries.
The master speaks. I think we have a solution here. As keeper of the EEP can you edit the end of TO event for this trigger?
Anyone ever try this suggestion of AlanC9's out? This is two of his posts from the eep central Europe thread. I tried it out, overpowers them for a human, but O.K. for A.I., I think (they were still gone by 1486 with one trial anyway)
Here's something I've been working on for that Teutonic Order and Prussia problem. First, change the 1419 scenario start to remove Prussia, and give the Prussian provinces and army to the Teutonic Order. (I'd also recommend giving the TO some more merchants so they can exploit Danzig in the first year.) Put the capitol in Prussia. Depending on how you feel about Memel, you may want to add it to Prussia's entry in revolt.txt. I did. Delete the trigger conditions from PRU 3516, which will now be triggered by event
Now here are two new events for the TO, set to fire in early 1524, when Prussia is supposed to become a Polish duchy. The first event triggers if the TO controls any of its starting provinces besides Prussia. It grants independence to Prussia, removes the Prussian provinces from the TO core, and triggers PRU 3516, where Prussia becomes a Polish duchy. The TO goes on with whatever it has left - the new capitol is randomly assigned.
The second event fires if the TO is down to a one-province minor. In this case the TO becomes Prussia. This means changing to Protestant too. Then PRU 3516 is triggered.
I've noticed something strange when firing these with F12. The Polish event that vassalizes Prussia always fires if the right choices are made, but the vassalization only happens if we got there by turning the TO into Prussia via event 85001 - if Prussia was formed by being released in event 85001, it doesn't become a Polish vassal. I don't understand this at all.
Anyway, here are the events:
Here's the new Teutonic Order setup to go with the above event. It has substantially better DPs than the original. They have a fair chance to hang on until 1525 with this.
Here's something I've been working on for that Teutonic Order and Prussia problem. First, change the 1419 scenario start to remove Prussia, and give the Prussian provinces and army to the Teutonic Order. (I'd also recommend giving the TO some more merchants so they can exploit Danzig in the first year.) Put the capitol in Prussia. Depending on how you feel about Memel, you may want to add it to Prussia's entry in revolt.txt. I did. Delete the trigger conditions from PRU 3516, which will now be triggered by event
Now here are two new events for the TO, set to fire in early 1524, when Prussia is supposed to become a Polish duchy. The first event triggers if the TO controls any of its starting provinces besides Prussia. It grants independence to Prussia, removes the Prussian provinces from the TO core, and triggers PRU 3516, where Prussia becomes a Polish duchy. The TO goes on with whatever it has left - the new capitol is randomly assigned.
The second event fires if the TO is down to a one-province minor. In this case the TO becomes Prussia. This means changing to Protestant too. Then PRU 3516 is triggered.
I've noticed something strange when firing these with F12. The Polish event that vassalizes Prussia always fires if the right choices are made, but the vassalization only happens if we got there by turning the TO into Prussia via event 85001 - if Prussia was formed by being released in event 85001, it doesn't become a Polish vassal. I don't understand this at all.
Anyway, here are the events:
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#Albrecht leaves the Teutonic Order
event = {
id = 85000
trigger = {
OR = {
owned = { province = 276 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 282 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 283 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 301 data = -1 }
}
control = { province = 290 data = -1 }
NOT = { exists = PRU }
}
random = no
country = LAT
name = "Albrecht leaves the Teutonic Order"
desc = "EVENTHIST3516"
style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1524 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1540 }
action_a ={ #Free Prussia and proceed#
name = "They are Albrecht's lands; we cannot prevent this"
command = { type = removecore which = 289 }
command = { type = removecore which = 290 }
command = { type = independence which = PRU }
command = { type = trigger which = 3516 }
}
}
#The Teutonic Order Disbands
event = {
id = 85001
trigger = {
NOT = { exists = PRU }
NOT = {
event = 85000
}
control = { province = 290 data = -1 }
}
random = no
country = LAT
name = "The Teutonic Order Disbands"
desc = "EVENTHIST3516"
style = 2
date = { day = 10 month = february year = 1524 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1540 }
action_a ={ #Become Prussia#
name = "The Teutonic Order is finished!"
command = { type = religion which = protestant }
command = { type = stability value = 3 }
command = { type = country which = PRU }
command = { type = trigger which = 3516 }
}
}Here's the new Teutonic Order setup to go with the above event. It has substantially better DPs than the original. They have a fair chance to hang on until 1525 with this.
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# The Teutonic Knights #
country = {
tag = LAT
ai = "Teutons.ai"
policy = {
date = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
aristocracy = 10
centralization = 4
innovative = 3
mercantilism = 7
offensive = 8
land = 8
quality = 10
serfdom = 10
}
colonialattempts = 0
colonialnation = no
major = no
colonists = 0
cancelledloans = 0
extendedloans = 0
treasury = 200
inflation = 0
merchants = 4.083333
religion = { type = catholic }
culture = { type = german }
diplomacy = {
relation = { tag = HAB value = 100 }
relation = { tag = BRA value = 100 }
relation = { tag = SAC value = 100 }
relation = { tag = LIT value = -150 }
relation = { tag = POL value = -150 }
}
knownprovinces = {
231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 263 264 265 266 267 268 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 490 491 492 493 494 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 744 745 746 806 819 820 821 840 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 979 980 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1058 1331 1361 1362 1469
1609 1610 1611 1612 1613
}
ownedprovinces = {
276 282 283 301 289 290 }
controlledprovinces = {
276 282 283 301 289 290 }
nationalprovinces = {
276 282 289 290 }
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 5500
location = 282
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 6500
location = 276
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 12000
location = 283
}
city = { fortress = { level = 1 }
population = 7000
location = 301
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 2 }
population = 5500
location = 289
}
city = {
fortress = { level = 2 }
population = 15000
location = 290
capital = yes
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = 850 }
name = "Prussian Knights"
location = 290
infantry = 8000
cavalry = 15000
artillery = 0
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 17111 id = 2 }
name = "Swordbrother Knights"
location = 276
infantry = 1000
cavalry = 5000
artillery = 0
}
landunit = {
id = { type = 9423 id = 844 }
name = "Teutonic Knights"
location = 282
infantry = 2000
cavalry = 8000
artillery = 0
}
diplomats = 5
technology = {
stability = { level = 2 value = 42 }
infra = { level = 1 value = 50 }
trade = { level = 1 value = 50 }
land = { level = 1 value = 0 }
naval = { level = 0 value = 0 }
}
}