The best and the worst monarchs

[Rex Francorum]

An interesting question: What were the best and worst kings/queens of these countries between 1492-1792:

Best or worst on what? diplomacy, administration and military, to be clear

Portugal: don't know very well..
Spain: Best: Charles I.
Worst:Charles II

France: Best: I hesitate between Henri IV or Louis XIII. Louis XIV have a good value too, but the 2nd part of his reign is weaker.
Worst: I hesitate between Charles VIII and Charles IX. Louis XVI could have been a good candidate but he made some "liberal" reforms that we should notice.

England: Best: Elizabeth I. William III is the runner-up
Worst: Mary Tudor, Charles I, James II

Russia: Best: Peter I, Ivan IV is the runner-up
Worst: AFAIK, Peter III

Austria: Best: Maria Theresa
Worst: Ferdinand II (Was not so bad, but his intolerance costed power to the emperor status.

Brandenburg/Prussia: Best: Friedrich Wilhelm Runner up: Friedrich II
Worst: Friedrich Wilhelm II

Countries like United Provinces and Denmark and Sweden, I do not enough. What is your advice?

 

[Drakken]

Spain
Best : Charles Quint
Worst : Carlos II indeed (poor him...), Carlos IV

France
Best : Louis XIV and Henri IV
Worst : Charles IX and Louis XVI

England
Best : Elizabeth I, Henry VIII and Charles I (sorry Rex)
Worst : Mary Tudor, Lady Jane Grey, George IV

Russia
Best : Peter I, Elizabeth and Catherine II
Worst : Ivan IV and Peter III

Sweden
Best (Hard to choose) but : Gustavus Adolphus, Karl XI, Karl XII, Gustav III.
Worst : Gustav IV and Erik XIV (Not that bad, but too unstable)

Denmark
Worst : Christian II, Christian IV

All for now, ready for debate.

Drakken

 

[Rex Francorum]

Originally posted by Drakken
Spain
Best : Charles Quint
Worst : Carlos II indeed (poor him...), Carlos IV

-----I agree

France
Best : Louis XIV and Henri IV
Worst : Charles IX and Louis XVI

----Agree for H4 and C9. I think Charles VIII, François II, Henri III where worst then Louis XVI.

England
Best : Elizabeth I, Henry VIII and Charles I (sorry Rex)
Worst : Mary Tudor, Lady Jane Grey, George IV

-----Why Charles I?

Russia
Best : Peter I, Elizabeth and Catherine II
Worst : Ivan IV and Peter III

Sweden
Best (Hard to choose) but : Gustavus Adolphus, Karl XI, Karl XII, Gustav III.
Worst : Gustav IV and Erik XIV (Not that bad, but too unstable)

Denmark
Worst : Christian II, Christian IV

All for now, ready for debate.
----Denmark didn,t have best kings?

Drakken

 

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Originally posted by Drakken
...
Sweden
Best (Hard to choose) but : Gustavus Adolphus, Karl XI, Karl XII, Gustav III.
Worst : Gustav IV and Erik XIV (Not that bad, but too unstable)

...
All for now, ready for debate.

Drakken

I would pick Gustav Wasa instead of Gustav III for the four-best lineup (is that list in order BTW?).

If you just look at sheer ability and success Gustavus Adolphus would take the title just ahead of his grandfather Gustav Wasa. If you also look at morals and stuff "Kung Krigskåt" (Gustavus Adolphus) and Gustav 'Don Vito' Wasa would lose quite a number of points to the Karls.

 

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Sweden:
Best: Gustav Vasa and Gustav II Adolf (best for the country not necissarily best for the people livining in it at that point)
Worst: Gustav IV Adolf

Denmark:
Best: none? (according to swedish history no good danish monarchs exited during that time, but they had some realy good ones earlier)
Worst: Christian II (lost Sweden and was later lost the danish crown, it is hardly possible to be less succesfull)

England:
Best: Elisabeth I
Worst: it seems that I are somewhat lacking knowledge here.

Russia:
Besteter I
Worsteter III

My knowledge of the royals of the other countries are not good enough to have a real opinon.

 

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2c on English monarchs

The worst examples of inbreeding:

Harold - how exactly does the King of England get himself shipwrecked and fall into his enemy's hands? Wasn't there more pressing work to do than take a pleasure cruise in the channel?

Matilda/Stephen - 1st English civil war, just about the only pair of idiots who could have undone William I's administration.

Richard I - bankrupt the country, off chasing Turks, and too preoccupied with handsome young men for the Pope's liking.

Edward II - Convinced that the red hot poker being maneuvered towards his nether regions was a cure for haemarroids.

Henry VIII - Blamed the world for his low sperm count, extravagant, overdressed nonce who undid all the work of his father. Almost ruined his daughter's chance to succeed by declaring Elizabeth a bastard.

James I Charles I Charles II James II - Stuart bastards, James was a poet who couldn't speak without his tongue falling out of his mouth and drooling on himself and that's his finest point. Chuckie 1 lost his country and head, Chuckie 2 wasn't so bad, but was too busy pumping courtiers to notice the capital burning to the ground, and James II managed to alienate the one man who may have saved his kingdom - Marlborough.

George III - best part of his reign occured while he believed he was a tree. Managed to alienate almost everyone, believed that he had nothing to fear from a bunch of upstart colonials.

Fine examples of hard working heads of state:

William The Conqueror (nee Bastard) - despite the obvious handicap of being French, began the transformation of the country into a modern state. A little testy, especially with the North, but a brilliant administrator.

Henry II - his two mistakes were not cutting his wife's throat and eating his offspring at birth. Rebuilt the Kingdom after his mother's disasterous reign, made a remarkable foundation to the modern common law and constitution.

Edward I - a proper bastard. Despite being portrayed as a medieval Hitler in the movie, he achieved greatness on the battlefield, in his reform of the legal system. Any man known as Hammer of the Scots has to be great.

Henry V - perhaps the unluckiest man alive. Died a few months before being crowned King of France. Great soldier, and of course Mr Agincourt. If he had done nothing else, he would still count as great for being the subject of the greatest pep talk in the English language- Shakespeare's "once more into the breach." Possibly the worst haircut of any English King.

Henry VII -cheap bastard, but stengthened the country financially and diplomaticaly.

Elizabeth I - Sowed the seeds of greatness, teased the Spaniards and French, though I very much doubt she had the looks of Cate Blanchett.

Cromwell - A little uptight, his reputation makes KingofFireSteve look like an immoral harlot, but in reality he enjoyed drinking and smoking. Military genius, and his reign contained the first modern Constitution, and Britain's only self-contained written Constitution. Actually tried to introduce a primitive education system to the country.

William III - despite my own wish that he drowned on the way to Ireland, there's no doubt he rectfied 100 years of turmoil and unrest. Reopened the English sport of fighting France.

 

[w_mullender]

For Holland during the time frame I have the following proposal. Although you have to keep in mind that none of them ware monarchs, but Stadholders or "Raadspensionaris" (prime minister avant la lettre) and their real power could be very limited.

Best:
William III of Orange (Kind of funny he was also the third in England). He stopped the franch invasion, waged and won most of his wars with Louis 14, became king of England (although a standing joke in Holland was "that he was king of Holland and Stadholder in England" referring to his limited power in England) and of course for baring my name . Only drawback is that he is now solely blamed for the Irish troubles with England, although he himself was quite tolerant towards religion and that he supported the killing of Johan de Witt.

Runners up:
Johan de Witt. Best politician ever seen. After his death an investigation was opened by his enemies (William 3) to see if he had been corrupt: Nothing found!
Frederik Hendrik: Conquered a huge amount of cities and stabilised the domestic front although he failed in his goal to union with the southern netherlands.

Worst: There are a lot of candidates for this title. I am doubting between William 2, 4 and 5.
William 2 lived to short to do much stupid things so I'll leave him out.
William 5 was also a worse stadholder, but he inherited a lot of problems from his father.
So this leaves us with William 4. He lsot complete control of the domestic situation. Worsened relations with France and England (which is not very smart when you look at the map of Europe).

 

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Originally posted by Janbalk
Sweden:
Worst: Gustav IV Adolf

Denmark:
Best: none? (according to swedish history no good danish monarchs exited during that time, but they had some realy good ones earlier)
Worst: Christian II (lost Sweden and was later lost the danish crown, it is hardly possible to be less succesfull)

I am not of the same opinion here. First Gustav IV Adolph was an administrative genious and one of our best peace-time kings, a fact often neglected because of his personality and lack of military insights. I would instead put Fredrik I or Adolph Fredrik as the worst ones under whom Sweden was very close to suffer the destiny of Poland.

On Denmark... Christian II was a 'Peasant-king' like gustav Wasa he was extremely popular among the majority of danes. The danes had an insane monarch at the later half of the 18th century which I believe was much worse for Denmark. However i do not remember his name.

/Greven

 

[unmerged(2833)]

I wonder if someone would know what monarchs i'm talking about, but well
Poland-Lithuania
best:
Sigismund I? or Sigismund II?
worst:
Sigismund III (yes, that Swedish guy )

 

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Originally posted by Maur13
I wonder if someone would know what monarchs i'm talking about, but well
Poland-Lithuania
best:
Sigismund I? or Sigismund II?
worst:
Sigismund III (yes, that Swedish guy )

I prefer Jan Sobieski as the best one. Though my favourite is Stanislaus II Augustus. Poland's neighbour really got something in their pants when he started to reform Poland. It is one the mistakes of Clio that it did not work out in the end.

/Greven

 

[Dark Knight]

England
Best: Henry VII, with Cromwell and William III as runners-up. Elizabeth I gets too much credit for others' good work.

Worst: I should point out that George IV is outside the EU time period and Lady Jane Grey shouldn't be considered a monarch (you can't blame her for being a "bad" monarch anyway, since she never actually ruled and it wasn't her fault she got her head cut off so quick).
My choice has to go to James II, who managed to lose the throne in three years. His idea of how to win back English support? Become a French pawn and encourage the Irish to slaughter the English.



Russia
Best: Peter I, without a doubt. Catherine II is hugely overrated, certainly not deserving the epithet "the Great".
Worst: Why is everyone else picking on Peter III. After all, he was a great monarch for Prussia, oh wait...

 

[Drakken]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
England
I should point out that George IV is outside the EU time period

I know very well that George IV's reign happens passed 1792, but before 1792 everybody in England was pretty well aware, his father George III above others, that this Prince of Wales would become, at his best, an unfortunate Monarch for England, at his worst a very bad one.

Among other reasons which influenced their beliefs in his incapacities : A gambler debt of 250 000 pounds before the age of 25 years old, his illicit marriage with his mistress Lady Fitzpatrick if I remember well, whom was a Catholic widow, plus the hereditary "oddness" herited of his father and ancestors, his fits of rage and melancholy, his public bickerings with his father and mother, his known alcoholism and debauchery, his excesses of spending etc.

So, even if he is not technically a Monarch until the Regency and his upcoming accession to the throne as George the fourth, his "special" lifestyle was enough to demonstrate to his subjects that he would never be a great King. Still, I must admit he was the most flamboyant King of England.

Drakken

 

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Originally posted by Greven


I prefer Jan Sobieski as the best one. Though my favourite is Stanislaus II Augustus. Poland's neighbour really got something in their pants when he started to reform Poland. It is one the mistakes of Clio that it did not work out in the end.

/Greven

Well, Sobieski was brillant military leader, but lousy king
When he was being elected, commontwealth, though recently came through many disasters, were still truly independent nation.
And after his death? August II was effectively elected by foreign diplomats, despite Polish nobility legally elected prince Louis Conti.
And i should mention Stephen Bathory, he had some great plans, and was capable of carrying them, though unfortunatly he died too soon.

 

[Martinus]

I wonder if someone would know what monarchs i'm talking about, but well

I know

Poland-Lithuania
best: Sigismund I? or Sigismund II?
worst: Sigismund III (yes, that Swedish guy )

I'd say Sigismund I was the best. I would also count Casimir the Great and Casimir the Jagiellonian high.

And for the worst one, yes Sigismund III Vasa was lousy, but IMHO there were worse types: Michal Korybut Wisniowiecki or Henri Valois (although the last one was not so bad as the King of France)

 

[Martinus]

Though my favourite is Stanislaus II Augustus. Poland's neighbour really got something in their pants when he started to reform Poland.

Well, sorry to disappoint you Greven, but he is not remembered particularly fondly in Poland. The good thing about him is that he did not oppose the reforms too much. Besides he would have been quite good minister of culture and art.

Otherwise however, he was a weak monarch, acting according to the dictate of Catherine the Great of Russia (lover of whom, btw, he was).

 

[unmerged(2833)]

I'd say Sigismund I was the best. I would also count Casimir the Great and Casimir the Jagiellonian high.

And for the worst one, yes Sigismund III Vasa was lousy, but IMHO there were worse types: Michal Korybut Wisniowiecki or Henri Valois (although the last one was not so bad as the King of France)

I though we were talking about 1492-1792 timeframe,but surely Casimir the Great rocked (as his name suggest). IMHO PL get a load of good kings prior to 1492.
And Henri was very nice guy who did PL a great favor, ie. he escaped very quickly to put his persona in France (poor French )

 

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Originally posted by Maur13

I though we were talking about 1492-1792 timeframe...

You are right we are losing focus. But reagrding Sweden the best monarch would be the same for all time as for 1492-1792.

 

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Originally posted by Janbalk

losing focus.

oh well, i'm used to it

 

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DK:
Best- Christian IV: Made denmark a culturel part of Europe, most of the danish historical buildings is his work. not so lucky on the battlefield.

worst: Erik Menved (early 1300) sold must of Denmark to the nobels of hansa

 

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Originally posted by vegger
DK:
Best- Christian IV: Made denmark a culturel part of Europe, most of the danish historical buildings is his work. not so lucky on the battlefield.

worst: Erik Menved (early 1300) sold must of Denmark to the nobels of hansa

Menved is out if era (1492-1792) and taken overall do you really meant that C IV was greater than Valdemar Atterdag (who recreated Denamerk after Erik Menveds losses) or Marghret who created the Kalmar Union?