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w_mullender

w_mullender

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On discovery channel they have the marvellous series of the great commanders (I think it has rerun for 15 times now;) ).
I have only one complaint and it is a major one. There are some admirals in it Nelson and the japanese guy of whom I forgot the name (from the battle against the russians). But where in the heck is Michiel de Ruyter????????
In his own time he was regarded as the greatest admiral ever. Even his main enemy Louis 14 recognised this: When De Ruyter was killed in some battle with the Spanish against the French Louis ordered all ports to fire salutes when the ship with his body passed.
I think he is the greatest admiral ever. The accomplishments of the nglish favourite Nelson pail in comparison.
-Won a lot of battles against the English and French (although the last were simpler)
-The raid on Chatham
-Saved the republic from an invasion in their darkest hours (twice 1672 and 73)
I could go on and on.

On a lighter note: When he was captain he sailed to Holland and had to pass the pirates of Duinkerken (don't know the English or french name). He ordered his men to butter the decks and walk on socks. When they were attacked the pirates slipped and were easily beaten.
I always thought this was just a story, but it really happened.
 
I miss my didcovery channel, i lost it when i moved. I have almost moved to my friend´because he have is :D

I have hard to belive that they have missed such a great admiral, are you sure that there isnt a part you have missed?
 
Originally posted by Lars
I miss my didcovery channel, i lost it when i moved. I have almost moved to my friend´because he have is :D

I have hard to belive that they have missed such a great admiral, are you sure that there isnt a part you have missed?
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Yep he is really not in. I also thought I missed it.
BTW I forgot to mention the battles against the Danes to help you Swedes capture some cities.
 
Being a history channel/discovery channel junkie I understand the feeling.

Interesting as the history channel can be sometimes, it should really be called the pop-history channel, or more exactly, the WWII channel.
 
De Ruyter was good, but not up to Togo's or Nelson's level. Or that of a few other admirals either, Hawke for example, or going really far back Themistocles or Agrippa.

Raiding Chatham isn't that difficult when the fleet is laid up to save money!:(
 
Was this raid on Chatham the same as "burning the fleet in the Medway?"

Anyone know a good online write up of this action?

Agelastus:

This is a bit of a sore point for you, isn't it? ;)
 
You have a point, Mullender. Problem is that all more popular renditions of history (movies, books, TV, etc.) are made by Anglo-Saxons.

Boy! The fuss they make about Crecy or Agincourt! Us Flemish beat the "fine fleur" of French chivalry long before that.
 
Originally posted by Bylandt
Boy! The fuss they make about Crecy or Agincourt! Us Flemish beat the "fine fleur" of French chivalry long before that.
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Courtrai-also known as the "battle of the Golden Spurs" in 1302, I believe. I seem to remember there was a defeat a few years later though, although I can't think of the name of the battle off-hand. Like Crecy or Agincourt, I don't believe it settled anything permanently, as it were.

Admiral Yi,
You don't say!:) ;)
 
Originally posted by Agelastus


Courtrai-also known as the "battle of the Golden Spurs" in 1302, I believe. I seem to remember there was a defeat a few years later though, although I can't think of the name of the battle off-hand. Like Crecy or Agincourt, I don't believe it settled anything permanently, as it were.
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Pevelenberg (Mons-en-Pevele) 1304. Tactical draw. Strategical defeat. And as you say, it didn't settle anything permanently. Flanders lost territory but avoided complete integration into the French state. Other revolts and battles were to follow.
 
Ah, thanks Bylandt-considering I was remembering reading of what effectively was a massacre though, maybe it was actually an earlier fight.......and the reference isn't in the book I thought it was, damn!:(

Still, most of my countrymen have indeed never heard of Courtrai-but then I'd be surprised these days if half of them even knew what "Crecy" was if you said the word to them!
 
Originally posted by Agelastus
De Ruyter was good, but not up to Togo's or Nelson's level. Or that of a few other admirals either, Hawke for example, or going really far back Themistocles or Agrippa.

Raiding Chatham isn't that difficult when the fleet is laid up to save money!:(
Click to expand...

Ah, another one with a sour face when he sees the chain in the rijksmuseum:D forgiven but not forgoten i believe?

What was the flagship of the british called he took with him?:p
 
Originally posted by MaL


Ah, another one with a sour face when he sees the chain in the rijksmuseum:D forgiven but not forgoten i believe?

What was the flagship of the british called he took with him?:p
Click to expand...
The Royal Charles.
Was this raid on Chatham the same as "burning the fleet in the Medway?"
Click to expand...
I think that's the English name.
De Ruyter was good, but not up to Togo's or Nelson's level. Or that of a few other admirals either, Hawke for example, or going really far back Themistocles or Agrippa.
Click to expand...
Togo beat a weakened russian fleet with a commander who could easily have been the musical advisor of Boris Jeltsin.
Nelson was indeed a good admiral (as was Togo), but his succes was mianly because of the lack of good competition. I mean the french admirals weren't exactly known for their tactical and strategical capacities.
De Ruyter faced a lot of admirals who were quite capable especially the English ones.
Raiding Chatham isn't that difficult when the fleet is laid up to save money!
Click to expand...
It was in for repair and only part of it. On the way to Chatham there were a couple of fortresses, so it wasn't that easy either.
 
The Anglo-saxon focus

I think there is a too big focus on the english speaking days. Ex. I've nevere seen anything from the 30 yrs war except of Breitenfeld.
You have Fieldmasrshall Torstensson brake through by Jankau in Bohemia the last year of the war when the kings army almost crushed the papists and the way to Vienna was open. Or the battle of Narva when 10000 blue-coats beated a 40000-60000 men russian army.
Or the work of Schanhorst and Gneisenau during the French occupation of Prussia after Jena and Auerstädt.
Altough they shown the master of logistsics FM Moltke (the older) movements before Königsrätz during the german war 1866.

The world do not begin by the channel.
 
Agree, Sten. Problem is that there are very few books on military history in my own language. It's propably the same in Swedish?
All the best things are written by Anglo-Saxon writers and they tend to center on their own history.

As to the Thirty Years' War: there is book in English by Geoffrey Parker.
 
Originally posted by Bylandt
As to the Thirty Years' War: there is book in English by Geoffrey Parker.
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One of many-Wedgewood's work is another well regarded history of the war in English.

Oh, and I've heard of Jankov etc.-but that's probably because I studied the Thirty Years War at university, which is why I have Parker's work on my shelves! :)
 
30 yrs war

I didn't know about Parker but read Wedgewood and find him good. But ther might be some older writngs i German, from the period before 1920, in this topic. But they might also be like older Swedish books, gloryfying and tendencious.
Michael Roberts have also written some books, but they focus more or less in Swedish or Baltic history. and tries to explain political and economical factors mor than strategy and generals
 
Re: 30 yrs war

Originally posted by Sten Sture d:ä
Michael Roberts have also written some books, but they focus more or less in Swedish or Baltic history. and tries to explain political and economical factors mor than strategy and generals
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Roberts is just about the only historian to have written extensively on Sweden in English-the fact that he's also a good historian is almost a bonus in such circumstances!:)

Parker's book is more of a general history of the war-it's actually a work with sections done by a number of historians edited by Parker. It is also the first book on the reading list of a number of University courses on the "Thirty Years War".
 
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