The issue of Rosenheim

[Mingmung]

Hello there,

The Balkan developer diary showed us another look at some parts of Southern Germany. While some little things were edited (like the shape and location of Rothenburg), other things still remain untouched. One among them being the province of Rosenheim, controlled by Bavaria-Munich.

So, what's wrong with it? Well, quite some things, actually.

First of all, it was pretty minor during EU4's timeframe, especially in the first few centuries. But the developers don't seem to contest this:

The second issue is its ownership:

As you can see, Rosenheim was under control of Bavaria-Landshut (little note: Bavaria-Straubing didn't exist in 1444 anymore).

So, we have two issues in total: Rosenheim was a very minor town (more akin to a big village) and is currently also under the wrong ownership. One of the developers has stated that he doesn't want to change ownership; but is this possible?

Let's take a look at other noteworthy towns in the region:
- Kufstein: under control of Bavaria-Ingolstadt.
- Wasserburg: also under control of Bavaria-Ingolstadt. This is the best option, as the town is already roughly in the correct position on the map and was far more important.

So, there are two ways to fix this:
- Keep Rosenheim as it is, but give it to its rightful owner, Bavaria-Landshut.
- Rename Rosenheim to Wasserburg and give it to Bavaria-Ingolstadt. The best option out of the two.

The last option gives Bavaria-Ingolstadt 3 provinces, Bavaria-Munich 2 provinces and Bavaria-Landshut keeps its 3 provinces. Bavaria-Munich already has more power because of its vassal, Passau (which I also find odd, but that's another topic). And is probably wealthier, as well.

Donauwörth could always be released if you guys feel like Bavaria-Ingolstadt would become too powerful otherwise, as the tag already exists and it was an independent city. Also, its conquest by the Bavarian dukes also lead to the creation of the Protestant League and after that the Catholic League. It basically served as a catalyst for the 30 year's war.

So, please fix this guys.

@Caligula Caesar

 

[Mingmung]

Also, this has been mentioned in the Kleinstaaterei-thread (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...staaterei-the-great-hre-map-revision.1156003/), but it remains an eyesore:

In other words: Braunau, the capital of Innbeiern, should be moved to the river junction to the west.

Geography 1.01, folks.

 

[Caligula Caesar]

Rest assured, it has been fixed (Wasserburg is now owned by Ingolstadt).

 

[Mingmung]

Rest assured, it has been fixed (Wasserburg is now owned by Ingolstadt).

Thanks! Really glad to hear!

Now on towards a Notec-fix

 

[Vaximillian]

Now on towards a Notec-fix

Notec is really the Square Memel of the past and the Rectangle Venice of the present, isn’t it?
The stubbornness they’ve been clinging to it is pretty astounding.

 

[Me_]

Notec is really the Square Memel of the past and the Rectangle Venice of the present, isn’t it?
The stubbornness they’ve been clinging to it is pretty astounding.

Venice got a new shape, as seen in the last DD, so there is hope.

 

[Matihood1]

Notec is really the Square Memel of the past and the Rectangle Venice of the present, isn’t it?
The stubbornness they’ve been clinging to it is pretty astounding.

It's not the shape that's the problem. It's the name. Notec (or rather Noteć but we can't have diacritics cuz no UTF-8...) is a river. There's no settlement nor any unit of administrative division ever named after that river, with the exception of the Netze District (Netze being German for Noteć) that was created after the first partition of Poland in 1772 on the territory of Prussia and lasted until 1807, so barely 35 years in total and at the end of the timeline. So it makes very little sense to name that province like that.

 

[Vaximillian]

Venice got a new shape, as seen in the last DD, so there is hope.

I know that and that’s why I mentioned Venice in the “present”, because it technically still isn’t changed and won’t be until 2020.

It's not the shape that's the problem. It's the name.

I know that as well. I’m just referring to their apparent insistence of keeping intact something so blatantly wrong and so easily corrected.

 

[Caligula Caesar]

It's a really strange thing to complain so persistently about, considering that there's no actual guidelines for what a province in EU4 should be called... but is this better?

 

[Mingmung]

It's a really strange thing to complain so persistently about, considering that there's no actual guidelines for what a province in EU4 should be called... but is this better?

With the town being Naklo now, too?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakło_nad_Notecią

Anyway, glad you changed it! I don't think it's so strange to complain about, as we don't have European provinces called "Meuse", "Rhine" or "Alpes", either. The Notec is a river; nothing else. Not a historical town, administrative division or something else where people live. Especially odd if there are correct alternatives, like the actual town in the region.

So, pretty sure real-life geography is good guideline

 

[Pbhuh]

With the town being Naklo nad Notecia now?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakło_nad_Notecią

Anyway, glad you changed it! I don't think it's so strange to complain about, as we don't have European provinces called "Meuse", "Rhine" or "Alpes", either. The Notec is a river; nothing else. Not a historical town, administrative division or something else. Especially odd if there are correct alternatives.

Real-life geography is a pretty good guideline

City can be named Naklo still. the Nad Notecia was added later I believe

 

[Mingmung]

City can be named Naklo still. the Nad Notecia was added later I believe

That could very well be the case. Thanks!

 

[fr-rein]

It's a really strange thing to complain so persistently about, considering that there's no actual guidelines for what a province in EU4 should be called... but is this better?

But what about areas?
There is a Pripiat area(!) named after the river, but historically roughly the same region was called Black Ruthenia. Given that, well, there are Red Ruthenia area and White Ruthenia area, could it be possible to change area name as well as a part of anti-river names patch, to make the naming in region more consistent?

Spoiler: And yes, before you ask, there is even Yellow Ruthenia

Yellow Ruthenia was defined as a territory of Chinese Manchuria, with Port-Artur and Russian Chinese Railway being first major steps in it establishment (until they got screwed in 1905 by war with Japan and had to give up on idea to establish it as a colony). Unlike historical old three, this was more of an imperialistic product, and since it didn't succeed it is relatively not well-known. But gotta collect all Ruthenias, right?

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

It's a really strange thing to complain so persistently about, considering that there's no actual guidelines for what a province in EU4 should be called... but is this better?

I think it's fair that people are passionate about how their homelands are represented. Imagine how English speakers would react if the province containing London was called Thames, for example.

 

[Pbhuh]

I think it's fair that people are passionate about how their homelands are represented. Imagine how English speakers would react if the province containing London was called Thames, for example.

Plus there is a huge tradition of naming provinces after cities in Eu4, especially when a region name is missing. But Naklo makes sense as it was a region as well and is a county to this day.

For example, There is Den Haag and Amsterdam instead of South and North Holland. Which makes sorta sense as those other names came about later but it's these minor things that are quite interesting. Plus it sometimes is just better. I still am hoping for a name change of Vlaanderen into Brugge though. Or atleast west vlaanderen.

 

[JKiller96]

I think it's fair that people are passionate about how their homelands are represented. Imagine how English speakers would react if the province containing London was called Thames, for example.

As is the case for many of the provinces in Eurasia named after random rivers that may or may not flow through the province.

 

[Mingmung]

Plus there is a huge tradition of naming provinces after cities in Eu4, especially when a region name is missing. But Naklo makes sense as it was a region as well and is a county to this day.

For example, There is Den Haag and Amsterdam instead of South and North Holland. Which makes sorta sense as those other names came about later but it's these minor things that are quite interesting. Plus it sometimes is just better. I still am hoping for a name change of Vlaanderen into Brugge though. Or atleast west vlaanderen.

And Brabant to Brussel, Caux to Rouen, for that matter. There are probably more examples I've forgotten.

 

[mechanical_Critter]

Plus there is a huge tradition of naming provinces after cities in Eu4, especially when a region name is missing. But Naklo makes sense as it was a region as well and is a county to this day.

Side note, that makes the UI sometimes rather confusing. When your mission reward tells you that Mysore gets -5% dev cost, does that apply on the city of mysore or the country? You kinda have to check out the wiki and it's a pain.

 

[Vaximillian]

It's a really strange thing to complain so persistently about, considering that there's no actual guidelines for what a province in EU4 should be called... but is this better?

I’ll still be renaming the province Bromberg every time I play

 

[Mingmung]

I’ll still be renaming the province Bromberg every time I play

Bromberg isn't located there