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Mar 26, 2007
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zamunda.net
The Mongols

The Mongols were an obscure people who lived in the outer reaches of the Gobi Desert in what is now Outer Mongolia. They were a pastoral and tribal people that did not really seem to be of any consequence to neighboring peoples. The Mongols were in fact a group of disunified tribes that would gather regularly during annual migrations; although they elected chiefs over the tribes at these meetings, they never unified into a single people. Their religion focused on a sky-god that ruled over nature deities, similar to the Japanese native religion Shinto, and the gods communicated to them through shamans. All that would change however, under the leadership of a powerful and vigorous leader named Timuchin or Genghis Khan.
Genghis Khan

Timuchin was the son of a poor noble in his tribe. Born sometime in the 1160's, he gradually unified the disparate Mongol tribes and, in 1206, was elected Genghis Khan, or "Universal Ruler" (also spelled Chingghis or Jenghiz Khan). He began to vigorously organize the Mongols into a military force through conscription and taxes on the tribes. With his small army (no more than one hundred and twenty thousand men), he managed to conquer far larger armies in densely populated areas.

Genghis Khan was perhaps one of the greatest military innovators in human history, and his army consisted of perhaps the best-trained horsemen in all of human history. They fought on horseback with incredible efficiency; they could hit targets with a superhuman precision while running at a full gallop. Their speed and efficiency struck terror in their opponents who frequently broke ranks. In addition, Genghis Khan organized his troops into decimal units (one hundred, one thousand, ten thousand), and would send hand signals through the fighting to these decimal units. The result in battle was simply mind-boggling. Genghis Khan could literally move troops around in the heat of battle as easily as he would move chess pieces. Moreover, his armies were incredibly mobile and could cover immense distances with numbing speed. Finally, Genghis Khan was ruthless towards people who resisted the advances of his army. If a town or city fought back, he laid siege to the town and, at its conclusion, would exterminate its inhabitants. When news of these tactics spread, Mongol armies easily and successfully took over towns that would surrender as soon as the Mongols showed their faces. The Mongols literally decimated populations in Western Asia and China as they advanced. As a result of all these tactics, the Mongol armies spread across the landscape like wildfire. They marched inexorably south into Chin territory and west into Asia and even Europe. When Genghis Khan died, Mongol armies were poised to conquer Hungary, which they would have accomplished had not their leader died.

The Mongolian Empire was perhaps the largest empire in human history in terms of geographical expanse. It extended west to east from Poland to Siberia, and north to south from Moscow to the Arabian peninsula and Siberia to Vietnam. For all that, Genghis Khan was primarily interested in conquering China because of its great wealth. While Mongol armies spread quickly west, Genghis Khan preceded cautiously in expanding southward, conquering first the northern Tibetan kingdom and later the Chin empire. When he died in 1227, he had just finished conquering the northern city of Beijing. By 1241, the Mongols had conquered all of northern China.
Kublai Khan

The Mongolian Empire, so vast in its reach, was separated into four khanates, each ruled by a separate khan and overruled by a Great Khan. The Kipchak Khanate, or Golden Horde, ruled Russia; the Ilkhanate ruled Persia and the Middle East, the Chagatai Khanate ruled over western Asia, and the Great Khanate controlled Mongolia and China.

In 1260, Kublai Khan, a grandson of Genghis Khan, became Great Khan. Four years later he relocated his capital from Mongolia to Beijing in northern China, and in 1271 he adopted a Chinese dynastic name, the Yuan. Kublai Khan had decided to become the emperor of China and start a new dynasty; within a few short years, the Mongols had conquered all of southern China.

Initially, the Mongols pretty much ruled over China as bandits, sucking out as much wealth as they could. But Kublai Khan slowly adopted Chinese political structures and political theories. In particular, Kublai Khan built a strong central government in order to cement his authority as a foreign ruler over China. During the T'ang dynasty, the Emperor had slowly become an absolute ruler; Kublai Khan finished that process and made the Emperorship absolutely autocratic.

Kublai Khan established his capital at Beijing and built a magnificent palace complex for himself, the Forbidden City. An architectural triumph, the Forbidden City contained elements of Arabic, Mongolian, western Asian, and Chinese architectural styles; it also contained a vast area of Mongolian nomadic tents and a playing field for Mongolian horsemanship. The Forbidden City of Kublai Khan, then, was in many ways a protected sanctuary of Mongolian culture. This aloofness from the Chinese exemplified by the Forbidden City was carried over into almost every other aspect of Mongolian rule. Although they adopted some aspects of Chinese culture, the Mongols pretty much refused to learn the Chinese language. The government, however, was run by Chinese officials selected under the civil service examination. Communication between the upper and lower reaches of government, then, was possible only through translators.
Yuan Philosophy

The single most striking aspect of the Yuan is not only the survival of Chinese culture under a vastly foreign rule, but its singular vitality and growth. To be sure, the Yuan had steadily adopted Chinese ways of thinking. Before the conquest of China, Yeh-lü Ch'u-ts'ai (1189-1243), an advisor to the Mongol Khan Ögödei, reformed the financial administration along the lines of its Chinese form. In 1271, Kublai Khan adopted a Chinese dynastic name, and in 1315, under the Emperor Ayurbarwada (Jen-tsung, 1311-1320), the civil service examination was reinstituted. All of these indicate a steady Chinese influence upon Mongolian rule. At the same time, the Mongols chose not to impose their own pastoral lifestyle, social structure, or religion on the Chinese.

The traditional philosophies and religions of China continued unabated under Mongol rule. Buddhism in particular found a welcome home among the Mongols who had in part adopted it. Taoism remained vital throughout China, and Confucianism continued. However, the foreign rule of the Mongols allowed for a certain amount of revolution and renewal in Chinese thought. Because the Mongols held Confucianism in contempt in the early years of their rule, the new philosophy of Neo-Confucians, founded in the last century of Sung rule, took hold in China and eventually eclipsed the older forms of Confucianism. The new examination system of 1315 was based entirely on Neo-Confucianism, thus enshrining it as the state philosophy for many centuries.

Curiously, the Mongols, though Buddhist, did not really support or patronize Buddhism, which was largely left to its own devices. They favored Tibetan Buddhism but really did not financially support the monasteries. When the Mongol rulers decided that too many Buddhists were escaping military service, they instituted a literacy test on Buddhist scriptures. Anyone who couldn't demonstrate literacy in the scriptures lost their military exemption. This put the Mongol rulers in direct conflict with the major Buddhist masters; the central school of Buddhism was Ch'an, or "Meditation" Buddhism. It stressed the primacy of the master over scripture and the silent transmission of religious truth. For that reason, Ch'an Buddhism had no written doctrine. Under pressure from the Mongols, the Ch'an Buddhists began to record their doctrine in a series formulations called kung-an or, in Japanese, the koan.

Nonetheless, the Mongol rulers were very preoccupied with religions. Kublai Khan in particular invited all sorts of faiths to debate at his court. He allowed Nestorian Christians and Roman Catholics to set up missions, as well as Tibetan lamas, Muslims, and Hindus. The Yuan period, in fact, is one of vital cultural transmission between China and the rest of the world. Europe formally met China during the reign of Kublai Khan with the arriuval of Marco Polo, an Italian adventurer, who served as an official in Kublai's court from 1275-1291. For all this vital interaction with foreign cultures, very little seems to have rubbed off on Chinese culture. The cultural interaction was not really a cultural exchange, for the situation was perhaps too unstable. The Yuan and the Chinese had no cultural direction, no syncretic goal that they were aiming at, so the cultural interaction never really got beyond the formal practice of simple disagreement and argument.
The Fall of the Yuan

The Yuan was the shortest lived of the major dynasties. From the time that Kublai occupied Beijing in 1264 to the fall of the dynasty in 1368, a mere hundred years had passed. Kublai was a highly successful emperor as was his son, but the later Yuan emperors could not stop the slide into powerlessness. For one thing, the Beijing Khans lost legitimacy among the Mongols still in Mongolia who thought they had become too Chinese. The fourteenth century is punctuated by Mongolian rebellions against the Yuan. On the other hand, the Chinese never accepted the Yuan as a legitimate dynasty but regarded them rather as bandits, or at best an occupying army. The failure to learn Chinese and integrate themselves into Chinese culture greatly undermined the Mongol rulers. As with all Chinese dynasties, nature conspired in the downfall; the Yellow River changed course and flooded irrigation canals and so brought on massive famine in the 1340's. The decline of the Yuan coincided with similar declines in all the other Khanates throughout Asia.

Finally, a peasant, Chu Yuan-chang, led a rebel army against the Yuan. He had lost most of his family in the famine, and had spent part of his life as a monk and then as a bandit leader. He took Beijing in 1368 and the Yuan emperor fled to Shangtu. When he drove the Yuan from Shangtu back to Mongolia, he declared himself the founder of a new dynasty: the Ming (1369-1644).


img18.gif



I think this will come out a great mod for HOI2DD , but there's a bit of a problem , i stink at modding + I'm going on a long vacation in a couple a days so i cant help much :( . I usually cant help much , but i really think this will be a great mod.It will be hard to reunite the Mongolian Empire :wacko:

So If you want to help in realizing this interesting mod please help.I'll say again that i know almost nothing about making events or any type of HOI programming :(
 
First rule of modding... You want a mod- be prepared to do 95% of the work yourself.

Learnt that myself.
 
Hey a lot of nice background information here.
Nice!! :D

Can I use some of it in my mod, since I already have the Mongol Empire in a similiar fashion but having survived into the 20th century as a major power in Asia?
:cool:
 
It just so happens I have a great deal of expertise on this subject, having studied this topic in detail for 20 years. ( BTW, you second map is a bit misleading :) ). I also once created an online strategy game in this time frame.

But I'm a bit confused as to what your mod would be? Are we back in the 13th century? Or are we assuming the Mongol Empire survived until now.

If we can get some experienced modders in with this, I'd be willing to contribute any information and ideas we might need. But I can mod about as well as a caveman. Heck now that you've filled my head with the idea, I might just research this to amuse myself.
 
Tengri said:
I can mod about as well as a caveman.
That makes 2 of us :wacko:

Well if there are some people which are interested into creating such a mod and are willing to sacrifice their time it would be very nice :). I think it would be real fun with the Mongolians but i just stink at modding :mad:
 
img2.gif
oh and here's the pretty face Genghis Khan :D



ae_genghisbw.gif








Chronology
1167? Brith of Temujin (Genghis/Chingis Khan)
1206. The great Khuriltai (assembly) of
1206. Temujin takes the title of "Chingis Khan"
1209-10. Campaign against the Xi Xia.
1211, 1213, 1215. Campaigns against the Jin Empire.
1214. Mongols lay siege to the Jin capital of Zhongdu (modern day Beijing), which falls in
1215. Areas north of the Huang He becomes under Mongol control. Jin capital is moved south to Kai-feng.
1218. Conquest of the Kara Kitai. Mongols raid Korea.
1220. Mongol caravan and ambassadors are murdered by the Khwarazmians. War against Khwarazm (Persia) begins. Capture of Bokhara and Samarkand.
1221. Subedei begins expedition around the Caspian Sea and into Russia.Jalal ad-Din rises in Persia and challenges the Mongols. Jalal ad-Din defeated at the battle of Indus. War with the Kwarazmian Empire concludes.
1226. Final campaign against the Xia Xia.
1227. Genghis Khan dies. War with the Xi Xia concludes.
1228. Ogedei Khan ascends throne and becomes Khakhan (Great Khan)
1235. First serious invasion of Korea.
1234. War against the Jin Empire concludes.
1235. Construction of Karakorum, Mongol imperial capital
1237. Batu Khan and Subedei begin the conquest of Russia.
1241. War in Korea concludes
1241. Batu Khan and Subedei invades and conquers Poland and Hungary. Defeat of the Europeans at Liegnitz and Sajo River. Death of Ogedei Khan
1242. Upon hearing the death of Ogedei Khan, Batu khan withdraws from Europe to secure his conquests in Russia. Political establishment of the Golden Horde Khanate, with Batu as its first Khan.
1246-8. Reign of Guyuk Khan
1251. Election of Mongke Khan as Khakhan.
1252. Invasion of the Sung Empire of south China begins.
1253. Hulegu begins his campaign into the Middle East.
1258. Hulegu captures Baghdad. Death of the last Abassid Caliph.
1259. Death of Mongke Khan.
1260. Hulegu withdraws from Syria upon hearing the death of Mongke, saving the Muslims from further invasion. A minor force left behind is defeated by the Mameluks at Ain Jalut. Hulegu settles in Persia and creates the Il-Khanate, with him becoming the first Il-Khan.
1260. Disagreement on succession of the Mongol throne leads to civil war between the two candidates, Kubilai and Ariq-boke.
1264. Kubilai is victorious over Ariq-boke, becomes Khakhan.
1266. Kubilai builds a new imperial capital at Tatu (modern day Beijing)
1271. Journey of Marco Polo begins.
1272. Kubilai adopts the Chinese dynastic title of Yuan. Kubilai becomes both the Khakhan of the Mongol Empire and the "Yuan Emperor" of China.
1274. First invasion of Japan. The fleet is destroyed in a storm.
1276. Hangzhou, capital of the Sung Empire, falls to the Mongols.
1277-8. Mongols invade Burma, installs a puppet government.
1279. Death of the last Sung emperor during a naval battle.
1294. Death of Kubilai. The Yuan dynasty continues but the Mongol Empire ceased to have a Khakhan. In name, the Mongol Empire ends, as it fractures into four clearly distinct kingdoms.
1335. Death of Abu Sa'id. The Il-khanate failed to produce a successor and becomes fractured. The Il-khanate ends.
1359. As with the Il-khanate, the line of rules of the Golden Horde ended and the khanate failed to produce a successor. The Golden Horde becomes more of a puppet government.
1330. Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) is born in Samarkand. Reunites Persia and defeats both the Russians and the Golden Horde. Builds the so-called Timurid Empire.
1368. Yuan rule in China ends.
1370. Death in Karakorum of Toghon Temur, last Yuan emperor.
1405. Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) dies. The Timurid Empire, referred to as the last great nomadic power, ends. Persia and the Golden Horde are again without a clear ruler. The Golden Horde fractures and becomes separate states.
1502. The Russians overthrow Mongol rule in Russia


Kublai%20Khan.jpg
- Kublai Khan


Chingis%20Khan.jpg
- Chingis Khan

Empire%20by%201204.jpg
The Empire by 1204

1218.jpg
By 1218

The%20Empire%20at%20the%20ascension%20of%20Ogedei%20Khan%201227.jpg
THE EMPIRE AT THE ASCENSION OF GEDEI KHAN

By%201246.jpg
By 1246
 
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Miihkali said:
Nice idea, but if you aren't yourself going to make your mod, anyone do it :(
Well I'm going soon on a vacation , so when i get back i will see if there are any who would want to build it . If there isn't anyone i guess i will have to learn how the f**k to mod events ,etc :(


P.S i just found a really cool map :cool:
300px-Mongol_Empire_map.gif



Oh and i think this will be the world map , or at least the country's
Premongol.png

But i don't know about America , maybe the Inca tribes or something :confused:
 
If you want to learn how to do events, i recommend having a look at the russian events in the kaiserreich mod, since they cover practically everything.
 
Kaloyan said:
Oh and i think this will be the world map , or at least the country's
Premongol.png

But i don't know about America , maybe the Inca tribes or something :confused:

Remember that these tatars are not same that novadays tatars.
 
Hi again guys,

After thinking this over through the night, I’d like to suggest to everyone that we do not attempt this mod. I just don’t think it’s possible to do it justice.

First, there are simply not enough country tags available to create enough entities to control the entire world. It is doubtful that we could even cover Asia and do it justice. This was a feudal system, with hordes (pun intended) of small local kingdoms, and there were loads of provinces that had little organized habitants at all.
Another problem is technology. Technological advancements were just not very fast in this era, and in fact in many cases technology was declining. Also, the Mongols had no “industrial base” of their own.
Supply is another problem. Armies of the time (especially the nomads) lived off the land, raiding. And battles were rare. Mostly it was sieges of fortified cities; something this game is just not good at simulating.

Again, I would love to see this project come to fruition. But I just don’t think the end result game would be very satisfying to anyone. I think HoI2 is better at simulating periods after the advent of nation-states and standing armies.

Don’t get me wrong. I will await opinions from those who have wandered onto this thread because they find the idea interesting. If this project will go forward, I will be glad to be a part of it. But I think we ought to think hard about the difficulties ahead.

-M
 
Maybe EU3 instead?
 
Yeah, I don't think a mod like this would work for Hearts of Iron. What WOULD work, if you're interested, would be a scenario about a Mongolian Empire that somehow survived until the 20th century. Of course you'd need a backstory on how it dealt with various historical circumstances, such as Colonization/Imperialism, Russian Unification/Expansion (if any), World War I, Relations with Japan, etc.
 
Tengri said:
Hi again guys,

After thinking this over through the night, I’d like to suggest to everyone that we do not attempt this mod. I just don’t think it’s possible to do it justice.

First, there are simply not enough country tags available to create enough entities to control the entire world. It is doubtful that we could even cover Asia and do it justice. This was a feudal system, with hordes (pun intended) of small local kingdoms, and there were loads of provinces that had little organized habitants at all.
Another problem is technology. Technological advancements were just not very fast in this era, and in fact in many cases technology was declining. Also, the Mongols had no “industrial base” of their own.
Supply is another problem. Armies of the time (especially the nomads) lived off the land, raiding. And battles were rare. Mostly it was sieges of fortified cities; something this game is just not good at simulating.

Again, I would love to see this project come to fruition. But I just don’t think the end result game would be very satisfying to anyone. I think HoI2 is better at simulating periods after the advent of nation-states and standing armies.

Don’t get me wrong. I will await opinions from those who have wandered onto this thread because they find the idea interesting. If this project will go forward, I will be glad to be a part of it. But I think we ought to think hard about the difficulties ahead.

-M

It's really not a terrible idea to just mod the Mongolian Empire into the modern time as someone already suggested. Granted, not the same thing, but I for one would love to see a mod like that, and would definatly help.