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Falc

Founder of the Resistance
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Dec 16, 2009
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Mordor.png

In the world of Middle-Earth, for eons now the forces of good and evil have fought one another.

Defeated at the end of the Second Age, Sauron who rules over the forces of evil has been slowly but steadily regaining his power all through this Third Age. More and more often, his agents have made their mark on the world and now, the forces of good must unite under one banner and oppose him.

Whose side will you fight on? And who will emerge victorious?


Game Setup

This is a game for 5 to 10 players. After sign-ups are closed, each player will be either on the side of the Free Peoples or a Minion of Sauron. Distribution of these allegiances depends on the number of players:

Players5678910
Free Peoples344566
Minions223334


All Minions of Sauron will be told the names of the other Minions, while the Free Peoples receive no further information.

Furthermore, one member of the Free Peoples will be given the role of Gandalf, while one Minion will be the Witch-King of Angmar. Depending on the amount of players, other roles may be assigned as well (see below).

The GM will randomly determine the order of Leadership.


Game Play

The game consists of between three and five Quests.

Gather the Party

First, a Party must be gathered to go on the Quest. The size of the Party depends on the number of players and which Quest is being attempted, according to the following table:

Players5678910
1st Quest222333
2nd Quest333444
3rd Quest243444
4th Quest334555
5th Quest344555


The current Leader must choose this many players and reveal their names in public. All players must then vote to either APPROVE or REJECT the proposed Party.

The Party is approved and goes on their Quest if they receive a majority of approvals (a tied vote means the Party is rejected). If the Party is rejected, Leadership passes to the next player in the order who will make a new proposal. Should there ever be 5 Parties rejected for the same Quest, then the Minions win the game immediately.

Voting may be done in private or in public. Once all votes are tallied, everyone's vote will be revealed.

Undertaking the Quest

Each player going on the Quest must either SUPPORT or SABOTAGE the Quest. The Free Peoples must SUPPORT, Minions are free to SUPPORT or SABOTAGE at will.

The Quest is successful only if every member of the Party supports it; if one or more sabotages occur, the Quest fails. Note that with games of 7 players or more, the 4th Quest requires at least two sabotages to fail.

Supporting or sabotaging is done in private. Once all actions are tallied, only the tally is revealed and not who did what.

Victory

The Free Peoples win when they complete 3 Quests successfully, unless the Witch-King can find and kill Gandalf.

The Minions of Sauron win when they sabotage 3 Quests, when the Witch-King finds and kills Gandalf, or when 5 Parties are rejected for the same Quest.


Roles

All roles are optional except Gandalf and the Witch-King.

GANDALF - FREE PEOPLES
At the start of the game, Gandalf will be given the names of all the Minions of Sauron.

WITCH-KING - MINIONS
At the end of the game, if the Free Peoples succeeded in 3 Quests, the Witch-King may guess which player is Gandalf. If he is right, the Minions win the game.

ARAGORN - FREE PEOPLES
At the start of the game, Aragorn is given the name of Gandalf. Adding Aragorn helps the Free Peoples.

DENETHOR - MINIONS
At the start of the game, Denethor's name is NOT given to Gandalf. Adding Denethor helps the Minions.

GOLLUM - MINIONS
At the start of the game, Gollum's name is not given to the other Minions, nor is Gollum told the names of the other Minions. Adding Gollum helps the Free Peoples.

SARUMAN - MINIONS
At the start of the game, Saruman's name is given to Aragorn in addition to Gandalf's. Adding Saruman helps the Minions.

BOROMIR
There are always two players with the role of Boromir. One of them starts the game on the side of the Free Peoples while the other starts on the side of the Minions.
At the start of the game, the Minion Boromir will have his name revealed to Gandalf and the other Minions, but will not be given any names. The other Minions will also be told he is Boromir.
During the game, the two Boromirs may swap sides, always remaining opposite one another (see below for the rules). During the game, they must follow all rules of their current allegiance (most notably, Free Boromir may not sabotage a Quest).

Note that Roles are never revealed to other people, only names or allegiance (Free Peoples/Minions) with the sole exception of Minion Boromir.

For example, Gandalf knows the names of all the Minions (except Denethor) but not what each player's Role might be. Similarly, Aragorn would receive the names of Merlin and Saruman without knowing which is which.


Optional Rules

Boromir
Boromir will either switch allegiance in a random manner or in a predetermined manner:

Random
5 cards are prepared, 2 that force the Boromirs to switch and 3 that leave them their current allegiance.

After Quest 2, one card is drawn from this deck, shown to all players and then discarded. This is repeated after every subsequent quest.

Predetermined
7 cards are prepared, 2 that force the Boromirs to switch and 5 that leave them their current allegiance.

At the start of the game after all names are revealed, the top 5 cards are drawn and shown to all players. The first card takes affect right before Quest 1, the second right before Quest 2, etc.

IMPORTANT! In this variant, the Minion Boromir must sabotage any Quest he is sent on.

Boromir bis
Another Boromir-related variant allows both Boromirs to receive the other's name at the start of the game.

The Palantír

The last player on the Leader list may start the game with a Palantír.

Immediately after the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Quests are resolved, the player holding the Palantír must choose another player, whose allegiance will be revealed to him in private. The Palantír then passes to the targeted player.

The Palantír may not be used on a player that has used it himself.

Adding the Palantír helps the Free Peoples.

The Ring of Power

When the Leader proposes a Party, he must also assign the Ring to one of the players he chose; he may not keep it for himself.

When the player who carries the Ring is sent on the Quest, he may publically select one other member of the Party after they have all chosen their actions. His action for that Quest will be revealed privately to the player who used the Ring on him and the opposite action will be counted for the Quest's result, ie. a sabotage will be counted as a support and vice-versa.

Note that this does not change what actions a player on a Quest can take. Free Peoples may still only choose to support, but the Ring may afterwards turn that into a sabotage.


Formalities

No communication between players about the game may happen outside the public thread. PMs between players are NOT allowed, neither are phone calls, talking in another thread, letting things slip while having a drink, etc. Do not talk about the Resistance.

Each player is solely responsible for clearly communicating to the GM and the other players. Making things like votes and party proposals stand out by using colors, bold text, bigger fonts and such is strongly encouraged. If anything gets missed, it is the fault of the player who did not make himself clear enough.

Votes for or against a party may happen in public or private. Only the last vote will be counted (based on the timestamp).

In order to make the game move smoother, it is strongly recommended to PRELOAD your support or sabotage of the Quest while the party is being voted on. This allows the GM to make a single update, counting the votes and handling the quest all at once.

If a player becomes absent, the GM reserves the right to replace him.
If a player fails to vote, the GM reserves the right to close the vote without him.
If a player fails to provide a Quest action, the GM reserves the right to default the action to support if the player is Free Peoples and sabotage if the player is a Minion.
If a player fails to propose a Party, the GM reserves the right to move on to the next Leader in the order.
 
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Game Setup

Free Peoples (5)
Gandalf
Free Boromir
Gimli
Legolas
Arwen

Minions of Sauron ()
The Witch-King
Minion Boromir
Grima Wormtongue

Optional Rules
Predetermined Boromir switching
The Palantir
The Ring

Leadership Order
Tamius
Tonkatoy
Cliges
Panzer
JPR
Gliomarto
Aedan
Citizen


Game Log

Quest 1 - Party of 3
[1] Citizen has the Palantir
[1] Boromirs do not swap
[1] Tamius is Leader
[1] Tamius proposes Tamius, Panzer Commander(R), Aedan
[1] Votes: JPR, Panzer, Aedan, Tonkatoy, Cliges (5) - Tamius, Gliomarto, Citizen (3)
[1] Ring is not used
[1] Quest is sabotaged once

Quest 2 - Party of 4
[1] Boromirs do not swap
[1] Tonkatoy is Leader
[1] Tonkatoy proposes Tonkatoy, Panzer Commander, Cliges, JPR(R)
[1] Votes: JPR, Panzer (2) - Tamius, Gliomarto, Citizen, Aedan, Tonkatoy, Cliges (6)

[2] Cliges is Leader
[2] Cliges proposes Tonkatoy, Cliges, JPR, Gliomarto(R)
[2] Votes: Cliges (1) - Tamius, Gliomarto, Citizen, Aedan, Tonkatoy, JPR, Panzer (7)

[3] Panzer Commander is Leader
[3] Panzer proposes Panzer, Tonkatoy, Gliomarto, Citizen(R)
[3] Votes: Panzer, Citizen (2) - Tamius, Gliomarto, Aedan, Tonkatoy, JPR, Cliges (6)

[4] JPR is Leader
[4] JPR proposes JPR, Panzer, Aedan, Citizen(R)
[4] Votes: JPR, Aedan, Panzer (3) - Cliges, Citizen, Tonkatoy, Tamius, Gliomarto (5)


[5] Gliomarto is Leader
[5] Gliomarto proposes Cliges, Aedan, Gliomarto, Citizen(R)
[5] Votes: All
[5] Ring is not used
[5] Quest is not sabotaged
[5] Palantir is used on JPR

Quest 3 - Party of 4
[1] Boromirs do not swap
[1] Aedan is Leader
[1] Aedan proposes Cliges, Aedan, Gliomarto, Citizen(R)
[1] Votes: All
[1] Ring is not used
[1] Quest is sabotaged once
[1] Palantir is used on Aedan

Quest 4 - Party of 5*
[1] Boromirs do not swap
[1] Citizen is Leader
[1] Citizen proposes Cliges, Aedan, Gliomarto, Citizen, Tamius(R)
[1] Votes: Tamius, JPR, Citizen (3) - Gliomarto, Panzer, Aedan, Tonkatoy, Cliges (5)

[2]Tamius is Leader

Quest 5 - Party of 5
[1] Boromirs swap
 
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In

Though I do have a question. There appears to be 4 evil roles and the boromirs, which would make 5 baddies, which is very unbalanced. Are not all of the roles going to be used?
 
There appears to be 4 evil roles and the boromirs, which would make 5 baddies, which is very unbalanced. Are not all of the roles going to be used?

Indeed they won't. Like I said, it'll depend largely on how many players sign up.


I don't get the predetermined thing. Is the point that all players immediately know that a switch of boromirs took place but not who the boromirs are or the allegiance or which boromir is on their side?

Note that even in the random version, the switch is revealed publically (one of the things we've been doing wrong).

The main difference is that the Boromirs know in advance when they'll switch.
 
Note that even in the random version, the switch is revealed publically (one of the things we've been doing wrong).

It really is no wonder previous Avalon games were so unbalanced...

Can you please make it more clear on who knows who though. Like is Gollum known to Gandalf? Which minions know the identity of other minions?
 
Indeed they won't. Like I said, it'll depend largely on how many players sign up.




Note that even in the random version, the switch is revealed publically (one of the things we've been doing wrong).

The main difference is that the Boromirs know in advance when they'll switch.

Based on the rules I found, the switch being known to all players or not was optional, and so was whether or not there was a foreknowledge of if/when switches would occur. Of course, that rule set might well have been incorrect, but I wasn't, so far as I'm aware, misunderstanding that which I had based the rules upon.
 
Also, In if you get less than a full 10. Just to let a new guy try it out.
 
Can you please make it more clear on who knows who though. Like is Gollum known to Gandalf? Which minions know the identity of other minions?

Gandalf knows all the minions except those that specifically state otherwise. Denethor is the only minion with such a clause.

You also have five references to Merlin in the rules (which I assume means Gandalf...?)

Fixing

Based on the rules I found, the switch being known to all players or not was optional, and so was whether or not there was a foreknowledge of if/when switches would occur. Of course, that rule set might well have been incorrect, but I wasn't, so far as I'm aware, misunderstanding that which I had based the rules upon.

Please don't think that I'm blaming you for anything. I can certainly see such an optional rule being used by another group, but copying other people's house rumes without understanding what brought those house rules about tends to work out badly.
 
I'd like to hear what you miss exactly about the cards.

To me, it seems that what the cards do is subtly change the rules while you're playing. Knowledge is added, threats are generated, etc. Now, most of these roles affect the setup and thus there is less happening during the game, if you get what I'm talking about?

But, we do have the Ring (Excalibur) and the Palantir (Lady of the Lake) with similar effects and timing, as are the Boromirs. So, you know, if a setup with all of those and no other roles (except Gandalf and Witch-King) interests you, speak up.
 
As it is now, with these special roles, most analysis goes straight out of the window - except perhaps for those with a special role.
Cards give you chains of logic and deductive reasoning. Roles give you .. randomness, really.
Resistance with cards is a completely different game from Resistance with Avalon rules.
 
I'll have to disagree a bit. Last game I decided to simply see who had voted for and against whom, knowing that, for example, Merlin should have voted against any team containing a Spy. Now, granted, I had a few candidates, but each turned into a whole set. If X is Merlin then Y and Z are Spies, which is sort of confirmed by their votes for one another, and then there's this other guy who seems to be voting along with Merlin so he's Percival, etc. Even if you end up with 3-4 of these, they're full constructions and every extra bit of information knocks down an entire house of cards.

Now, you don't have to believe me. If you like, you can stay out of the game and we'll analyse it together in PM :)
 
I wasn't planning on getting into this game anyway ;-)

Maybe that first game with marty schewed my opinion a bit, but the takeaway I got from that game is that doing public analysis is actually discouraged by this type of setup. Spies want to find merlin but putting that analysis out there gives their identities away. Merlin can't really analyse in public if he wants to not be found, or has to be terribly careful. The resistance also has to be careful for exactly that reason - if they analyse too openly they might end up clueing the spies in about who merlin is. Etc.

So maybe there isn't -less- analysis, but there sure is a lot less of it in the open.
 
No, I have to agree, there is less analysis in cardless games. Not only can too much analysis lead to Merlin being revealed, it also contains far more guesswork when we have so few certainties. Plus there are less people to do analysis - regular Resistance members know so little and have few incentives to do proper open analysis, Merlin already knows most of the roles and Lancelots/Boromirs have such an uncertain role any analysis could end up benefiting the opposite team. That basically leaves the spies to work out who Merlin is and Perceval to work out who Merlin is.

Another gripe I have about Avalon is that not everyone is equal. The outcome of the game depends far more on say Merlin or Octa than a regular spy or resistance member. In regular Resistance everyone starts off with an even footing.

I also feel that cards just add an extra tactical element - both in who they are distributed to and how/when they are played. I think they give more variation than you would see in a standard Avalon game.

But having said all that I definitely think the rules you have added with the Palantir and Ring of Power are definitely a step in the right direction and are basically the main reason I've actually signed up for this game.
 
I've just noticed it, Ring reveals order in private, not public? I'm certain I've seen it as public somewhere. (And oh, remember how I've told that Lancelots switches should be public? Sorry I'm so petty, it's just so rare I turn out to be right.)
If it is private indeed, will we at least know who was corrupted/cleansed? If yes - with Palantir it's still more checks than can ever be with cards.
 
The Ring swaps the given order and the total result of the Quest is revealed as usual.

The original order is then privately revealed to the player who used the Ring.

Use of the Ring is announced in public, though.